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  • Shaked 1 - Prosecution Summation
  • Rosenberg - Re Dec. 20, 1945 document
  • Shaked 2 - Prosecution Summation

    Prosecution summation and Rosenberg recall in transcripts13.html

    (Jerusalem, Feb. 16, 1987 - Apr. 24, 1988)
    SUMMARY of English-language TRANSCRIPTS

    Michael Shaked 1; T011723 - 12025; 1988/01/25 - 26; Vol. 22
    [1988/01/25, Mon.; T011723, Vol. 22; Shaked]
    [Top] [1988/01/25] [1988/01/26] [Bottom]

    T011723 - Shaked commences the Summation for the Prosecution by reading a poem about the "Slaughtered Jewish People" by Zvi Greenberg.
    - Or is it "The Lamentation over the Slaughtered Jewish People", by Yitzhak Katznelson?

    T011727f - July 22, 1942 Hefler told Chernyakov of Warsaw Judenrat that 6000 Jews per day would be evacuated eastward.
    - Shaked describes the horror of the evacuation process, quoting the survivor testimony and from the various tavs and nuns.

    T011735 - Shaked: "Each and every one of the survivors who gave evidence in this court had to do a stint as a forced laborer at Treblinka."

    - [W.Z. It would be more accurate to say that each and every one of the eyewitnesses against Mr. Demjanjuk were Jewish Nazi collaborators who (if their testimony is to be believed) sent hundreds of thousands of their own relatives to their deaths. To alleviate their guilt complex and draw attention away from their own culpability, they must magnify the atrocities of others. And they are encouraged to do so by the Holocaust Industry, which itself needs to minimize its culpability in the present-day atrocities perpetrated by Israelis against Palestinians.

    That the eyewitnesses "erred" in their identification of Mr. Demjanjuk is confirmed by the Supreme Court of Israel which overturned the lower court verdict on July 29, 1993.

    That the eyewitnesses descriptions of the conditions at Treblinka were often implausible, improbable and even impossible has been confirmed by comparison to their earlier testimony and by careful analysis.]

    T011742 - Shaked refers to the testimony of Julius Grant where he expresses surprise that he found rags as a component of the paper in the Trawniki ID card. Shaked suggests that these rags came from the clothes of the people who were gassed in Treblinka.
    - "In 12 days Treblinka had yielded 132 boxcars of clothing."
    - [W.Z. Very touching, except that the paper must have been produced long before Treblinka was in existence.]

    T011749 - "The construction of the [10] new gas chambers took about 10 weeks and sometime in November [1942], they went into operation alongside the smaller ones."

    T011757f - "... but we found later that they counted the skulls and there were 200,000 Jews in such a pit." [Rosenberg?]
    - [W.Z. Who counted? When?]
    - volcano, bubbling, rose and subsided, pour chlorine on top, etc. [Rosenberg?]

    T011761 - after incineration, bones would be crushed, thrown in and covered with sand.

    T011766f - Shaked considers the Trawniki ID card.
    T011768 - Shaked categorizes the expert witnesses for the defense as either true experts and those not expert in anything.
    - "And I'm clearly referring to Mrs. Robertson and Mrs. Pritchard."

    T011769 - Sheftel: "But let me say and make it quite clear that the defense does not propose to bring up any of the evidence produced by Robertson and Pritchard unless other experts have confirmed any of the points that these two ladies brought up."
    - [W.Z. During discussions with Lily and me, Yoram Sheftel seemed to demonstrate a particular antipathy towards Edna Robertson. I have often wondered why?]

    T011771f - Shaked attacks the credibility of Dr. Grant by repeating the parallel lines of a paper clip leaving rust marks but no identation arguments, his use of Edna Robertson's nun/53 diagram.

    T011777 - In regards to Wagenaar's testimony, Shaked absolves Sheftel for the IRO-Landshut-1946 photo fiasco and blames Wagenaar for not interviewing Demjanjuk on the subject.

    T011778 - Shaked describes Iscan as a nice person, who has no experience in analyzing living persons, and who exaggerates his own expertise.
    - Shaked claims that Dr. Ortner and the FBI photographer support the Altman, Patricia Smith thesis.

    T011784 - Shaked starts criticizing Flynn for refusing to testify on threat of being sued by Nishnic, but Levin tries to protect Flynn.

    T011786 - Shaked states that the Trawniki ID card is unimpeachable, and an expert "who wishes to refute this must compromise his integrity."

    T011788f - "The defense second expert Mr. Tassen ... was not even brought into this courtroom to testify." Neither did Albert Leiter.

    T011791 - Dr. Polemic for defense took samples of tav/149, 222, 223, 224 photos, as well as from several photos on Stuthoff documents (presumably) to try to date the photographic paper, but did not testify.
    - [W.Z. I had not heard this before.]

    T01197 - Tet/1 = blowup of questioned Demjanjuk signature on tav/149.
    - very long monologue on Grant's failings.

    T011810 - Tav/193 is Demjanjuk testimony in 1980; tav/195 is testimony in 1981.
    - [W.Z. It is incredible that shaked is still trying to imply that Demjanjuk confessed that it was his signature!]

    T011825f - Shaked concludes with Grant and starts on Flynn.
    - Shaked, of course, plays up the tape of Flynn's speech in Palm Springs.
    - He implies that Flynn compromised his integrity for money.
    - He concludes that Flynn's testimony supports the conclusions for the experts for the prosecution

    - [W.Z. On the contrary, I think Flynn's position was that, despite the fact that the Demjanjuk signature had obviously been forged, he could not find anything wrong with the paper and ink and other physical aspects of the document. And Flynn didn't even consider the contents of the writing.]

    T011834 - Shaked considers the testimony of Bezalely [Petricili]
    - Shaked, of course, praises Bezalely unreservedly.
    - He goes on to quote cases indicating that it is up to the judges to determine the authenticity of a signature and not the expert witnesses.

    T011840f - Shaked considers the Trawniki ID card (tav/149) as a whole.
    - Who is the owner?
    - Details are correct, even "pale blue" is similar to grey, color of his hair became darker over the years, even Demjanjuk himself does not rule out that the photograph is his but claims he never wore such a uniform.

    T011846f - Robertson testified that she found no evidence of a photomontage.
    - Altman and Smith confirm the authenticity of the photograph.

    T011861 - Shaked goes on to stamps on tav/149.
    - German heirarchy in General Gouvernment: Kreeger, Odelio Globochnik, Himmler, Wansee confrence, Operation Reinhardt [Reinhard] T011864 - Shaked: "The Trawniki camp was set up at the end of July and early August 1942 [1941]."
    - [W.Z. Is this an error? Yes.] - Levin asks if Polish citizens were also trained in Trawniki. Shaked replies that "There was a tiny minority of volunteers from the civilian population of Poland ..."
    - 4000 is the estimated top number trained at Trawniki.
    - Sheffler testified that Germans failed to destroy all documents when Red Army overran Lublin in 1944, and Red Army captured a lot of documents.

    T011866f - Dorner: "Is there any material which links up the Trawniki people with this agricultural estate -- Okzow or the agricultural estates, farms of any type?"
    - Shaked says yes: "They worked there as guards over forced laborers who were carrying out farming duties." - "Professor Sheffler still says that the precise information which exists on the Trawniki auxiliary forces covers about 450 Wachmanner as they were called, out of the total estimate of up to 4000 personnel."

    T011869 - rogatories or testimony on Trawmiki from Leonhardt, Rudolph Reiss, [Svidersky?], Fedorenko.

    T011872 - Shaked points out that in addition to Streibel's signature:
    - "Mrs. Robertson also contested the authenticity of some of the signatures from the B.D.C. [Berlin Document Center], that is to say those known signatures where there is no dispute about their authenticity, which were used by the other witnesses were considered by Mrs. Robertson in no way to be definitely authentic."
    - [W.Z. This may help explain Sheftel's antipathy towards Edna Robertson.]

    T011877 - Shaked quotes Streibel: "I completely exhausted the source of POW camps, otherwise I wouldn't have gone to the Ukraine to recruit personnel. It was only for a short time that I took people from the POW camps because the useful people who were in reasonable physical condition were no longer available, I waited too long."

    T011880 - Shaked: "We don't believe his version concerning Chelm, and believe that he was recruited already at Rovno."

    T011891 - "And that we feel that sometime in July 1942, since he answered the criteria set up by the Germans, he was in fact recruited for training at Trawniki."

    Michael Shaked 1; T011892 - 12025; 1988/01/26; Vol. 22
    [1988/01/26, Tue.; T011892, Vol. 22; Shaked]
    [Top] [1988/01/25] [1988/01/26] [Bottom]

    T011892f - Shaked summarizes Mrs. Grabitz testimony.
    - "All those who had been recruited had their photographs taken at Trawniki."
    - [W.Z. Did they also get a haircut?]

    -Leonhard rogatory in Germany, tav/208, says "that there was a Jewish forced laborer who dealt with the photography at the Trawniki training, because it will be remembered that alongside the training camp there was also a penal camp and a forced labor camp" ... "the Jewish photographer came from the penal camp."
    - [W.Z. Did this "Jewish forced laborer" have an archive of the negatives of all Trawniki photos?]

    T011894 - Leonhard said: "... in concrete terms I cannot say anything at all, because I was never, ever present when the photographs were taken. I was not present when people were photographed. But I do know that POWs of different kinds bore this rectangular white mark and then the number on them had to tally with the number on the I.D. card itself."

    T011895 - Rudolph Reiss rogatory re tav/149: "... has white rectangle on it. I know that all the POWs who came to Trawniki had their photographs taken for purposes of issuing the I.D. cards, the dienstausweis of the Wachmanner. And all of them had a white piece of material or paper attached to their chest, which was taken at the same time as their photograph was taken."

    - Shaked: "... white rectangle ... sometimes ... the numerals on it are clearly discernable. Sometimes they are blurred."
    - [W.Z. Not just blurred; completely illegible!]

    T011896 - Shaked refers to personalbogen of Swidersky (tav/122), Chernovsky (tav/126), Kiris (tav/127), (tav/136), (tav/137), Shishyoff (tav/248) and [not personalbogen] tav/222 (Juchnowskij), tav/223 (Wolembachow).

    - "As for the numbers, Mr Bezalely managed to decipher the figures on the white rectangle on the photograph of the Trawniki document, which [are] not discernible with the naked eye. ... it is 1393 ... So that the bench may be able to see for itself, by means of developing the negatives -- the number was developed and it appears on tav/145."

    - [W.Z. A possible scenario is that Bezalely took a digitized image, touched up the numbers to make it visible and printed the image for the benefit of the judges. To be convincing, one must demonstrate directly from the original photo.]

    - Dorner points out that Robertson came up with a different number.

    T011897f - "Bezalely ... compared it to ... personalbogens tav/136, 137 ... The form of the numerals is alike in all 3 photographs, and this is further proof that it comes from the same source.
    - [W.Z. But tav/149 is not a personalbogen!]

    - "... Bezalely explained ... that when a certain film is being developed and prints taken ... there was a method ... that was applied at the time, whereby on top of the film some sort of master was put that had already been divided into a certain shape ... that was laid on top of the film -- a sort of pattern as it were."
    - "And this stands out quite clearly and is seen on the personalbogens" tav/136, tav/137 and on tav/149 as "a sort of protrusion" on the top left corner.

    - [W.Z. All 3 photos in my possession have a white border around the outer edge of the image, which is not uniform from picture to picture and which has a triangular-like protrusion in one corner. This "protrusion" points downward on the lower left corner in the Demjanjuk photo (tav/149), points upward in the Juchnowskij (tav/222) photo, and is perhaps obscured in the Wolemachow (tav/223) photo by a punch hole in the lower left corner. (Also, there appears to be the edge of another person's arm in this region of Wolembachow's photo.) Also note that the background is white in the Demjanjuk and Wolembachow photos, but the background of the Juchnowskij photo is grey with vertical black stripes on the left side.

    It would certainly be interesting to find other examples of photographs taken and developed by the "Jewish forced laborer" who is credited with doing the photography at Trawniki. We also note that it is possible that the "white rectangle" containing the number on the chest may not have been present on the negative of the image and could have been added during the creation of the print.]

    T011900 - The photographic paper of all 3 photos (tavs/136, 137, 149) was 18 to 19 microns thick, the depth of the photographic emulsion was the same, and all looked the same under ultraviolet light, such that Bezalely concluded that it was likely the same photographic paper.

    T011901 - Mrs. Grabitz stated that "most of the photographs came from the personal possession of Mrs. Schwarzenbacher", whose husband was one of the commanders at Trawniki.

    T011902 - Shaked states that, during the visit of Himmler to Trawniki in August 1942, the uniforms worn by the Wachmanner were the same as in the Demjanjuk photo in tav/149.

    T011904 - MISSING
    To11906 - Rudolf Reiss said that "two photographs were taken at Trawniki" (one for the person and one for the files). "Stapled to the card."
    - At Levin's prompt, Shaked admits that the word Reiss uses is "bureauklammer" which could be paperclip rather than staple.

    T011908f - Shaked speculates that every recruit received a serial number when he arrived at Trawniki, but "some time did elapse until he actually received his personal [personnel] card."
    - scar on back not in dispute.

    T011913 - Shaked admits that two things are not correct on the card: height and Zaporizhia.
    - He simply attributes the height of 175 cm to an error, and not an indication of forgery.
    - [W.Z. We also note that there is no weight on the card.]

    T011916 - MISSING
    T011919 - "Saporozhe [Zaporizhia] is a mistake and there is no dispute about that."
    T011920-22 - MISSING
    T011923f - Discussion of Teufel's rank
    - In Teufel's statement on June 18, 1982, during trial of Streibel: "But I also had 2 Ukrainians under me, who were looking after the stores for the personnel."
    - Both Leonhard and Reiss confirm the Streibel and Teufel signatures.

    T011927 - Shaked claims "Teufel's signature, is an authentic one, and of course he could have only signed that in Trawniki, in 1942."
    - [W.Z. Why only in Trawniki in 1942? Why not in Berlin in 1946? Or in any other place at any other time?]

    T011929 - MISSING
    T011930 - Himmler toured Trawniki on Sunday, July 19, 1942, and Teufel was promoted to Unterscharfuhrer. Therefore Teufel must have signed tav/149 (Demjanjuk #1393) before that date because he indicated his rank as Rottenfuhrer (Rottff in handwriting).
    - On tav/223 (Wolembachow #1211) Teufel's rank is stamped to be Scharfuhrer (stamped).
    - [W.Z. On tav/224 (Bondarenko #1926) Teufel's rank is once again handwritten as Rottffr.] - Shaked lamely explains this by claiming that Demjanjuk arrived early but didn't receive his card until later. Or maybe Teufel didn't record his rank on Wolembachow's card and later stamped it.

    T011935f - Levin asks Shaked whether the number in the white rectangle in tav/149 is 1393 or 1693 as Mrs. Robertson claimed.
    - Basically, Shaked says that Robertson misread the number, because part of it is beneath the stamp seal.
    - More importantly, Levin points out that if the second numeral is a 6, then the space between the first two numerals (1 and 6) is narrow, and very wide between the 6 and 9. If it is interpreted as a 3, then the spacing is more even.

    T011941 - Tav/144 = letter from Streibel in October [date?], 1942 referring to 2 sets of underwear as on tav/149.
    - [W.Z. Seems very coincidental.]

    T011944f - Shaked refers to tavs/104, 129, 130 (same letter signed by someone else), 131, 133, 134 which are letters starting in January 1943, in which there is discussion about Nikolai Suslov [not a Ukrainian name] who lost his Dienstausweis #805 and must have it replaced.
    - Shaked claims that this proves that these Dienstausweis were carried on the person.
    - Shaked erroneously (and probably deliberately) translates seal #8 as requiring a lost Dienstausweis to be returned to Trawniki (rather than the person carrying it being detained and returned to Trawniki).

    -[W.Z. Presumably, Shaked maintains that this Dienstausweis would be identical to tav/149. We note the sequence numbers are Suslov (#805, tav/104), Juchnowskij (#847, tav/222), Wolembachow (#1211, tav/223), Demjanjuk (#1393, tav/149), Bondarenko (#1926, tav/224).

    T011948 - Tav/135 refers to Guardsman Dimitriov (#1689) being transferred to Lublin.
    T011950 - Shaked discusses rogatory of Leonhard, who presumably confirms authenticity of tav/149.
    T011951 - Tav/112 or 212 = deposition of Emanuvitzius in hospital confirms that he and every Wachmann had a Dienstausweis, but doesn't remember details about it.

    T011953 - Shaked declines to discuss the Reiss rogatory until the official version arrives from Germany.

    T011954f - Shaked considers the 3 new Trawniki ID cards tavs/222, 223, 224.
    - Shaked claims that initially the Israeli prosecution asked the Soviets "to receive 10 additional documents above the number 1393, and 10 preceding that number". They didn't get any.
    - "Later on, the state prosecutor [Blatman?], asked Dr. Armand Hammer to find out from the Soviet authorities, whether in fact it would be possible to receive any documents similar to this one, regardless of their serial numbers, ..."

    - [W.Z. We note that there is absolutely no documentation to support the above story. In my opinion, it is absurd. There is no evidence that these 3 cards even came from the Soviet Union.
    - I find it incomprehensible that the defense has not insisted that the prosecution submit a full chain of custody of these 3 documents.]

    T011957 - Levin gives a long monologue that these three cards "were admitted on a limited basis, and only for a specific and very limited purpose, ..."
    - As far as he is concerned, there is only tav/149.
    - Levin: "Otherwise, even if you say it a thousand times, these documents will not prove that there are other documents similar to tav/149, ..."


    T011959f - Shaked explains how these three cards were introduced for the very limited purpose of refuting Edna Robertson's testimony about a displaced leader in tav/149.

    T011962 - Shaked: "... Mrs. Robertson, having seen the documents, agreed that in fact there are other Trawniki documents on some of which the entire number is evident. And others only part of the number is visible. For example, on tav/223, the entire number 1211 can be deciphered with the naked eye. Or at least the first 3 digits."

    - [W.Z. Once again I ask, why are not all the numbers crystal clear?]

    T011963f - Levin suggests about three times that Shaked move on to other expert witnesses, but Shaked continues to demonize Robertson by referring to 1693, the ambush the prosecution had prepared for her on the fluorescence from the stamp ink on the photograph and paper, offer to rewrite the books of Dr. Cantu, VSC similarity between tav/223 and tav/149, etc.

    T011966f - Shaked moves on to Julius Grant.
    - Grant indicated that paper of all 4 documents was similar.
    - Shaked garbled monologue distorts Grant's testimony completely when comparing tav/149 to the other 3 ID cards. He implies that the Wolembachow photo on tav/223 has not been reglued. Grant did accept the signatures on the 3 new documents "as authentic for the purposes of my own investigations".

    T011970f - Flynn also referred to tav/223 as a known document.
    - Grant and Polemic (who didn't testify) took paper and/or photograph samples of a all 4 cards.

    T011973 - Tolstoy was shown the 4 ID cards and did some translating from Russian.
    - He said "the KGB like any other security service probably will try to forge as little as possible."
    - Tolstoy also commented on possibility of demotion of Teufel.

    T011977 - Shaked: "... we do not propose to enter into the personal particulars of each and every one of the people whose names appear on these documents."
    - [W.Z. Why not? This should be mandatory.]
    - Shaked refers to the 1977 handwritten letter of Demjanjuk.

    T011979f - Shaked refers to case precedents.
    T011982 - Shaked refers to "historical fact ... the Russian Army ... seized papers, inks, stamps, perhaps also typewriters ..."
    - [This has not been proven in court.]

    T011985 - Shaked starts demonizing Rudolph Reiss.
    T011986f - Shaked goes back to his theme that the KGB is too good to create such a amateurish forgery as tav/149.
    - If they wanted to produce a forgery, why would they introduce all the inconsistencies and write on it with Russian handwriting?
    - Refers to tav/149 in 1981 Cleveland denaturalization trial; Soviets sending it to Israel followed by 3 new cards.

    T011989 - Levin: "The explanation was to send it to Israel in order to trip up the Government of Israel or rather the Courts in Israel. Here, we have a perfectly good explanation Mr. Shaked."
    - [W.Z. Exactly! And the Soviet Union succeeded beyond its wildest expectations in corrupting the judicial systems of the United States and Israel.]

    T011990 - MISSING
    T011991 - Levin rules that Eliyahu Rosenberg will be questioned the next day Jan. 27, 1987, concerning his statement in Yiddish on Dec. 20, 1945 in Warsaw.

    T011992 - Shaked turns his attention to memory and the testimony of Wagenaar.
    - He suggests the courts have been considering memory for many years and don't need Wagenaar to teach them.
    - No great weight should be attached to his testimony.
    - Wagenaar concurs that it is ridiculous to state that people cannot remember a face after 40 years.
    - Concepts of encoding and decoding.
    - Verbal description of a person's face is extremely difficult.
    - Shaked refers to study and claims 90% correct identification after 40 years.

    T012015 - MISSING
    T012016 - Witnesses recalling Fedorenko
    T012017 - 23 - MISSING
    - [W.Z. In hindsight, all of Shaked's argumentation concerning memory is irrelevant.
    T012024 - Shaked requests adjournment and Levin accedes.
    T012025 - **** END of Shaked testimony on 1988/01/26 ****

    Eliyahu Rosenberg; T012026 - 12072; 1988/01/27; Vol. 22
    [1988/01/27, Wed.; T012026, Vol. 22; Rosenberg]
    [Top] [1988/01/27] [Bottom]

    T012026f - Paul Chumak additional cross-examination of Eliyahu Rosenberg.
    - Chumak shows Rosenberg the Dec. 20, 1945 document (69 pages, handwritten in Yiddish, with his signature at end, in Warsaw) where he describes the killing of Ivan the Terrible.
    - in 1945, "I was a soldier at the time in the Polish Army."
    - [W.Z. VERY ODD. How did he become a soldier?]
    - Polish landlady, in house in Cracow with Russian and Byelorussian friends, suggested he put down his memoirs on paper.
    - Rosenberg got permission from his commanding officer [NAME?] to take time off to write.
    - This landlady [NAME?] "put me in touch with [Mrs.?] Magister Wasser of the Jewish Historical Institute.

    T012031 - Nun/144 = statement of Rosenberg handwritten in Yiddish, dated Dec. 20, 1945.
    - Nun/144a = Hebrew trnslation of nun/144.

    T012033f - Chumak questions Rosenberg of contents on pages 64 to 66, where Rosenberg describes the Aug. 2, 1943 uprising and the death of Ivan.

    T012034 - Rosenberg: "The boys -- that was us. We. We, the stretcher bearers, with the corpses on them, which had been scooped out of the pits and transferred them to the incinerators."
    - [W.Z. On T000524, Goldfarb, in May 1979, tells Arad (or perhaps Arad is stating this on 1987-02-19) that "These pits were being filled with corpses from the transports that had arrived."]

    T012036f - Rosenberg reads sentence by sentence and translates into Hebrew.
    T012041 - MISSING
    T0912042f - Although the text is written as if he had seen it himself, Rosenberg now claims that this was told to him by the escapees in the forest shortly after they escaped.

    T012044 - MISSING
    T012046 - Rosenberg: "I believed it with my whole heart, and were that it had been true."
    T012049 - Tal: "... one simply cannot tell what you actually saw for yourself , and what you heard about later."

    T012050 - Rosenberg: "We then went into the engine room, to Ivan, he -- who was sleeping there -- and Gustav hit him with a shovel on the head. And he remained lying down for keeps."

    T012053 - Gustav was a kapo in Camp II, but Rosenberg does not know his last name.
    - Chumak: "Do you know if he survived the uprising?"
    - Rosenberg: "No, I haven't seen him since nor have I heard."

    T012055 - Rosenberg says that he just heard later, but did not see himself.
    - "... not only Gustav but also others told me."
    - [W.Z. But just above he said that he doesn't know if Gustav survived.]

    T012058 - Rosenberg: "They aspired to, their fondest wish was to kill this person -- but they hadn't."
    - "I wrote another version, Mr. Chumak. But here I preferred to write this particular version. But there is another version."

    T012060 - Chumak: "After the uprising, did Gustav at any time tell you what he did to Ivan in the engine room."
    Rosenberg: "I did not see Gustav, Mr. Chumak, I said a moment ago, I did not see Gustav the kapo."

    T012063 - Rosenberg claims he was discharged from the [Polish] army in 1946
    T012064 - MISSING
    T012067 - Dorner: "You explained this about a different version that you gave to Friedman, the version concerning the death of Ivan, but the specific question is why didn't you make reference to Gustav's version?"

    T012069 - Chumak refers to O'Connor's question on page T001445: "...did you not indicate to Tuvia Friedman in 1947 from your knowledge, Sir, that Ivan died in this burning barracks ...?"
    - And Rosenberg answered: "God forbid, no I didn't say such a thing to Friedman on any occasion, anywhere."
    - Levin disallows the question.

    T012070 - Chumak: "... did you ever relate such a version to an author or a writer called Jean Francoise Steiner?"
    - Rosenberg: "I don't remember."
    - Under Levin's questioning Rosenberg admits knowing Steiner.
    - Rosenberg: "... I did tell Steiner a different version, not about -- not the Gustav one."
    - [in 1960 or 1961.]
    - Chumak: "So that at least for 20 years you were convinced that Ivan of the gas chambers was dead?"

    T012071 - MISSING
    T012072 - **** END of Rosenberg testimony on 1988/01/27 and in Vol. 22 ****

    Michael Shaked 2; T012073 - 12486; 1988/01/27 - 02/01; Vols. 22, 23
    [1988/01/27, Wed.; T012073, Vol. 22; Shaked]
    [Top] [1988/01/27] [1988/01/28] [1988/02/01] [Bottom]

    T012073f - Shaked discusses the eye-witness testimony.
    - [In retrospect, of course, the whole procedure was a farce.]
    T012077 - "dimensions of 600 x 400 for the entire [Treblinka] camp."
    T012078 - 79 - MISSING
    T012080 - Epstein saw Ivan, Nikolai, Gustav, Reichart, ...
    T012081 - 82 - MISSING
    T012085 - 86 - MISSING
    T012088f - Testimony of Boraks, Rajchman [Reichman]
    T012093 - Shaked: "Already in 1944, Mr Reichman in a bunker in which he had hid in Warsaw had written his diary, nun/14."

    T012094 - Witness Charney arrived from Warsaw ghetto in autumn 1942 at age 16.
    - was in camp I

    T012096 - 98 - MISSING
    T012100 - MISSING
    T012104f - Rosenberg describes how Leffler by ordering Ivan in German to leave.
    - [W.Z. But Demjanjuk never spoke German.] - In addition to nun/144 in 1945, Rosenberg gave depositions in nun/9 in 1947 and nun/7 in 1961 at Yad Vashem.

    T012111 - Rosenberg testified in the 1961 Eichmann trial (nun/10, pp86-90)
    T012113 - Shaked: "Otto Horn, SS officer, ... whose job it was to see to it tht the corpses were properly laid in the burial pits in Camp II."
    - Levin: "For Otto Horn denies this." "Mr. Shaked, maybe you will find it in the Federenko testimony, if my memory serves me right, if I am not wrong."
    - Shaked realizes that Otto Horn was acquitted in Germany, but says that he would not have acquitted him.

    T012116 - Shaked quotes Horn from tav/249: "I was in the upper camp [Camp II] and nobody told me what to do ..."
    - Horn refers to Ivan as an assistant to Schmidt: "Because he was always working together with Schmidt."
    - [W.Z. Demjanjuk doesn't speak German, so how could he work and converse with Schmidt?]

    T012120 - Shaked: "... when we come to investigate his knowledge of some German. Yes, he spoke to Schmidt, he spoke to Schmidt in German in part page 19 (?)" ... "his knowledge of German, tav/32, the form filled in ..." in Regensburg in 1948.
    - Shaked corrects himself and says it is tav/194.

    T012123f - Shaked attacks Wagenaar on his testimony on the identification procedures.
    - an incredibly long, and in retrospect misplaced, attack for 47 pages.

    T012161 - Scheffler in nun/138 requested the OSI give his name to the defense even before the 1981 Demjanjuk denaturalization trial.

    T012170f - Shaked finishes chewing the Wagenaar bone and goes on to other considerations of line-ups and identification parades.

    T012184 - On Feb. 07, 1984, Demjanjuk was questioned in U.S. and shown 3 photographs, tav/213, where he recognized himself and two Red Army friends Petrov and Ivan.

    T012186 - This clearly indicates that people can recognize the pictures of people 43 years after the fact.

    Michael Shaked 2; T012187 - 12308; 1988/01/28; Vols. 22, 23
    [1988/01/28, Thu.; T012187, Vol. 22; Shaked]
    [Top] [1988/01/27] [1988/01/28] [1988/02/01] [Bottom]

    T012187 - Gill tells the court that Demjanjuk would like to say a prayer "prior to listening to these false accusations".
    - Levin: "Will the accused please be seated and not get in the way of the hearings."

    T012190 - Shaked refers to tav/55 where the OSI gives Radiwker instructions how to carry out the identification procedures.

    T012192 - Levin: "... in the case of Hellman, she [Radiwker] put before him only 5 photographs."
    - in all others there were at least 8, usually 17, and as many as 30.

    T012196 - The witnesses and number of photogrphs shown were: Turowsky (17), Goldfarb (17), Rosenberg (17), Shalom Cohen (30), Greenspan (17), Czarny (17), Boraks (8), Linkwasser (8), Epstein (8), Helman (5).

    T012198 - Shaked: "If I've understood correctly, the majority of these photographs were taken from the immigration files of the persons concerned and of course it is a question of when they immigrated to the United States." - [W.Z. This is also the procedure followed by the Deschenes Commission when it initiated the Canadian witch hunts in 1985.]

    T012204 - Dorner: "Another witness, Kantorovsky also said that even though he was a young individual, he was beginning to bald."
    - [W.Z. I do not recall this name.]

    T012208f - Shaked: "Another requirement stipulated by law and which should be subjected to review in this case, is the presence of a defense counsel."
    - "In the present case, was it in fact possible for a defense counsel to be present?"
    - Levin says that Shaked does not have to expound on the subject and to move on to a different subject.

    T012210f - Shaked brings up "the subject of accurate record keeping of the proceedings so that the proceeding may clearly be reflected on record from start to finish. I believe that in the case at hand, both when it comes to Mrs. Radiwker and when it comes to Mr. Kolar, this obligation was fulfilled to a tee."
    - [W.Z. THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE. Both Radiwker and Kolar could very easily have audio taped the interviews.]
    - The exceptions were Boraks with Kolar and Rajchman in the U.S. [with Tom Fusi?]

    T012213 - Levin: "Perhaps Goldfarb and Turofsky [Turowsky] did meet at some place."
    - Shaked: "Mr. Sheftel never put forth the proposition that the witnesses are liars because what such a contention would mean is that all of these witnesses are perjuring themselves and there is some sort of a collusion involved."
    - [W.Z. In retrospect, this seems extremely likely.]

    T012220 - Shaked: "Now here we are dealing with Ukrainians from Treblinka. We know the range is 100-120 Ukrainians from Treblinka."
    - [W.Z. Plain racism by Shaked?]

    T012222 - On May 9, 1976, Turowsky was the first identifier, followed by Goldfarb. Turowsky came back the next day to talk about Ivan.

    T012226 - After Turowsky and Goldfarb, Radiwker had no choice but to ask for permission "to open 2 files, one of Fedorenko, the other on Demjanjuk."

    T012231 - Shaked: "By anaolgy, the Trawniki photograph which the police received only in 1979, is the substitute for a live lineup ..." - [W.Z. The INS should have used the 1942 Trawniki photo for identification purposes. They did have the newspaper photo and if they wanted a better one they could have asked the Soviet Union for it.]

    T012232 - Shaked: "And one certainly could not assert that the memory of the photograph of the accused as seen in 1976 is a factor influencing the persons pointing to the Trawniki photograph in 1979."

    T012233f - Shaked outlines history of the identifying witnesses.
    - Turowsky arrived Sept. 1942, was in Camp I in workshop. Tav/57 is Radiwker interview from May 9, 1976 and tav/58 is interview of May 10, 1976. Identified Ivan "at first glance" on the 9 or 10 May, 1976?

    T012242 - "Turowsky's failure to identify [Fedorenko] at Ft. Lauderdale in court."
    T012245 - Goldfarb made 2 depositions on May 9, 1976, one for Fedorenko (whom he can't identify) and one for Demjanjuk (who looks familiar to him).

    T012252 - Rosenberg refused to come to police headquarters when Mariam Radiwker phoned him at work on May 11, 1976, so Radiwker took a bus to see him at work. He points to photograph 16 immediately.

    T012255 - Shaked stresses that Rosenberg correctly states the age of Ivan as 22 to 23 even though in the 1951 picture shown him Mr. Demjanjuk was older [31].

    T012256 - Dorner: "Namely, none of the witnesses knew what the year that the photograph was from."

    - [W.Z. Shaked and judges refuse to mention nun/141, which is a July 6, 1976 letter from the WJC to the INS stating that none of the 20 survivors identified John Demjanjuk.
    - Neither do they mention the advertisements in the newspapers asking people to come forward to identify Mr. Demjanjuk and Mr. Fedorenko.
    - It is inconceivable that the Holocaust Industry was not intimately familiar with all the details concerning Mr. Demjanjuk.
    - Since the Holocaust Industry now seems to have accepted that Ivan Marchenko was the Ivan of Treblinka, and Mr. Marchenko was substantially older, one wonders what the significance of the eye-witnesses stating that Ivan was 22 or 23 years old is.]

    T012258 - Shaked refers to courtroom encounter where Rosenberg looks into the eyes of Mr. Demjanjuk as further confirmation of Rosenberg's credibility.

    T012259f - Kolar, on Dec. 25, 1979, interviews Rosenberg, who identifies the Trawniki ID photo.
    - In 1960, Rosenberg was interviewed by Pakad Goldman for the Eichman trial.
    - In 1964 Dusseldorf trials Rosenberg presumably realized that the people he thought were dead were still alive.

    T012263 - Levin says that since Rosenberg was not questioned on this: "... then the whole lot is speculation, no more."

    T012264f - Shaked proceeds on to Czarny testimony.
    - Czarny was interviewed by Radiwker at 11:00 am, Sept. 21, 1976, where he doesn't recognize Fedorenko, but does recognize Demjanjuk

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