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  • Grabitz - German state attorney
  • Scheffler - German Nazi historian

    Witnesses for prosecution in transcripts02.html

    (Jerusalem, Feb. 16, 1987 - Apr. 24, 1988)
    SUMMARY of English-language TRANSCRIPTS

    Helge Grabitz; T003307 - T003353; 1987/03/25; Vol. 4
    [1987/03/25p, Wed.; T003307, Vol. 4; Grabitz]
    [Top] [1987/03/25p] [1987/03/26] [1987/03/30] [1987/03/31] [Bottom]

    T003307 - Sheftel confesses that the defense is not ready to properly cross examine Helga Grabitz, whose 7 page deposition (in German) was received only the night before. No translation available. Shaked states that much of the material was given to the defense in December 1986. Long discussion ensues and after recess Levine rules [T003325] that examination in chief by Shaked will commence this morning, the afternoon session will be cancelled, and examination in chief will continue the next day.

    T003308 - Sonia Levkovitch, Shmuelevitz and Cohen are presumably not going to testify.

    T003310 - Paper by Hans Peter Rullman [Victim of the Holocaust]
    T003321 - Michael Horowitz of the prosecution went to Germany in the summer of 1986 to interview witnesses "that may have themselves been on trial as Nazi war criminals" and involved with Mrs. Grabitz.

    T003327 - Grabitz is a state attorney in Hamburg dealing with Nazi criminals since February 1966: "At that time there were 27 attorneys who devoted all their time to such cases." [INCREDIBLE!] In 1979 she was appointed Deputy Head and in 1983 she became Head of the Division.
    - Grabitz describes in detail how these criminal jury trials are handled. The documentary material is archived in Koblenz (Federal) or the archives of the Lander.

    T003332 - Karl Streibel trial - part of trial against Michalsen, Globocnik at Lublin.

    T003334 - Streibel trial [Trawniki]
    - Lipover labor camp, Krasnick labor camp
    - Commander of Lublin, who ordered liquidation of Warsaw and Bialistok ghettos
    - Labor camps of Ludgin and Krasnick
    - Camp Flughaffen in Lublin
    - German self-defense unit
    - Headquarters of SS Polizeifuhrer in Lublin
    - labor camp Poniatowa

    T003334f - Streibel trial started in 1960, was separated from Michalsen in 1969, Grabitz submitted indictment in 1970, main hearing started in Feb. 1972, main hearing from Dec. 15, 1972 - June 3, 1976, decision was an acquittal, appeal of prosecution, Federal High Court turned down appeal. There were 1161 files, same number of sub-files, 114 German and foreign witnesses, 80 statements of witnesses read, Prof. Sheffler testified several times.

    T003337 - Charge sheet included posting of Trawniki commandos to Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, liquidation of Lublin ghetto in March/April 1942, Warsaw ghetto in summer of 1942, Strupp operation in Warsaw in spring of 1943, 16 ghetto evacuations in Lublin district. Did not include posting of Trawniki commandos to forced labor camps, concentration camps, agricultural estates, anti-partisan actions.

    T003340f - As chief prosecutor in the Streibel case, she went to [Leningrad] Soviet Union (along with 3 judges, defense counsel and supporting personnel) to interview Englehart, Olofosky [Orlovsky?] and Brousheff. She sent in a detailed list of questions in advance which were put to the witnesses by the Soviet public prosecutor. Additional questions were asked by the German judges [in Leningrad].
    - "If the Russian state prosecutor had the impression that a witness in answering a question was holding something back then the Russian state prosecutor intervened and made a very explicit reference admonishing [the witness] about his oath to tell the truth. In all 3 cases, an absolutely accurate examination was carried out." [T003342]

    [THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF KGB coercion of witnesses to provide false evidence!!!]

    T003343 - "Before signature we were shown the Russian record which was already translated into German and we could then check these German versions of the Russian record against our notes for any errors or inaccuracies." [It is obvious that the witnesses were just mouthpieces to relate what the KGB had instructed them to say.]

    T003345 - "With regard to the content of this, it's only possible to deny content of the record if it is possible to prove that the record itself is a forgery."

    [This is just a legal means to legitimize false coerced evidence!]

    T003346 - Rogatories were in August 1975 in Leningrad.
    "Shaked: Why did the witnesses not come to you? Why did you have to go to Leningrad?
    Grabitz: The witnesses did not obtain the necessary exit permits."

    T003347 - Shaked tries to submit set of documents with the signature of Helge Grabitz dated July 10, 1986.
    - Sheftel objects strenuously to the admission of these statements.

    T003350f - Mem 4, Mem 5 = "temporary" documents of statements of Browzew [Brousheff?], Orlovsky, Yaacov Englehart.

    **** END of Grabitz testimony at end of Vol. 4 ****

    Helge Grabitz; T003354 - 3594; 1987/03/26 - 31; Vol. 7
    [1987/03/26, Thu.; T003354, Vol. 7; Grabitz]
    [Top] [1987/03/25p] [1987/03/26] [1987/03/30] [1987/03/31] [Bottom]

    T003360 - Mem 7 = tav/86= album of photos prepared in Hamburg from Streibel trial.

    T003364f - photos of Schwartzenbacher, Herfler, wives, etc.
    T003365f - The Labor Camp Trawniki was created following the Struppaktion (spring, 1943) when Warsaw ghetto was liquidated and the weapons plant Schultz was transferred to Trawniki. Trawniki Labor Camp was liquidated on Nov. 3, 1943 in operation Erntefest which killed 6000 people in Trawniki, 42,000 in all, including Poniatowa.

    T003370 - Trawnikis = Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, who were Hiwis.
    T003373 - Photo 19, "Hiwis who have only just arrived at Treblinka, because they are still wearing their Russian uniforms."

    T003375 - Photo showing Herfler, Globochnik, Schwartzenbacher
    T003377 - Sheftel: cross examination "is designed to check the witness memory, and not to check on the fact that 850,000 Jews were exterminated in Treblinka."

    T003378 - Levine threatens Sheftel with contempt of court ruling for remark concerning rental of hall [for show trial].

    T003382 - Photo of Willy Franz. Shaked: "... Willy Franz was the commander of the First Battalion and in fact was the deputy of Streibel." [No relation to Kurt Franz.]

    T003383 - Photos 37-42 provide documentary proof of Himmler's visit to Trawniki on July 19, 1942.

    T003401 - Mem 9 = tav/88 = documents from Streibel's personal file (6 pages).
    T003402 - On March 6, 1942, requests promotion of Karl Streibel to Sturmbannfuhrer [battalion commander]

    T003406 - On Oct. 17, 1941, Streibel became commander of Trawniki and was responsible for its construction. Globochnik indicates that by March 6, 1942, Trawniki had 1250 people in it.

    T003410 - Mem 10 = tav/89 = On June 9, 1944, Streibel requests re-promotion of Nicholai.
    T003413 - Sheftel apologizes to court for remark about leasing hall for show trial, and acknowledges "fatherly tone of voice" of Levine.

    T003415 - Mem 11 = tav/90 = Nov 3, 1944 letter of Streibel requesting an SS questionnare.
    T003417 - Mem 12 = tav/91 = Globochnik letter of March 10, 1942, with list of March 2, 1942.
    T003424 - Ernst Teufel, Trawniki, responsible for supplies for Germans and Hiwis.

    T003426 - Mem 13 = tav/92= Death certificate of Hans Ernst Teufel on July 26, 1968 in Koburg. Born on Jan. 29, 1907.

    T003429 - Mem 14 = tav/93 = 1962-06-18 statement of Teufel in Michalsen trial.
    T003432 - Mem 15 = tav/94 = Death certificate of Dorothy Teufel, Jan. 13, 1966 with Teufel's signature

    T003433 - Mem 16 = tav/95 = birth certificate of daughter
    T003435 - Mem 17 = tav/96 = marriage certificate of Teufel
    - visa application to U.S. on May 1, 1963.

    T003437, T003439 - Mem 18 = tav/97 = 1963-05-01 Teufel visa application to U.S.
    T003444 - Mem 19 = tav/98 = 1945-11-10 Polish document
    T003446 - Mem 20 = tav/99 = 1943-09-24 Trawniki document
    T003347 - Mem 21 = tav/100 = 1942-06-18 Trawniki document
    T003347f - Mem Names: Samuel Krit, Petor Demenko (deserter, Petro Detrenko, Dementrinko on Dec. 6, 1943.)

    T003449 - Mem 22 = tav/101 = 1943-09-24 Trawniki document
    T003451 - Mem 23 = tav/102 = 1943-12-20 Trawniki document

    [1987/03/30, Mon.; T003457, Vol. 7; Grabitz]
    [Top] [1987/03/25p] [1987/03/26] [1987/03/30] [1987/03/31] [Bottom]

    T003458 - June 18, 1942, Teufel reports it is correct that he received decoration on April 20, 1942 for which he was recommended in March 1942.

    T003463 - Mem 24 = tav/103 = photostat of Streibel letter of 1942-12-16 complaining about postings. "It is inadmissible that an office should take steps and have posted it wachmanner from Trawniki and subequently pass on those wachmanner to other postings without the knowledge and authorization of Trawniki."

    T003464f - Long discussion of rank of Streibel
    T003468, T004124 - Mem 25 = tav/104 = 1942-01-29 Streibel document
    T003471 - Mem 26 = tav/105 = 1942-11-27 document referring to Trawniki personnel guarding POW's harvesting potatoes.

    T003472 - Mem 27 = tav/106 = 1943-02-10 document dealing with use of ammunition by guards.
    T003473 - Mem 28 = tav/107 = 1944-05-17, Frederick Feitz and Hans Brokerman are posted to Poniatowa. Although Erntefest was Nov. 3, 1943, equipment there was still being guarded.

    T003475 - Mem 29 = tav/108 = 1942-10-19, reorganizing ranks of wachmanner.
    T003477 - Mem 30 = tav/109 = 1943-02-26 re promotion of 2 guards.
    T003478 - Mem 31 = tav/110 = 1943-12-13 re punishment of wachmann Sovitsky for stealing from Jewish stores.

    T003480 - Mem 32 = tav/111 = 1943-06-30 concerning promotions.
    T003481 - Mem 33 = tav/112 = 1943-07-28, promotion of Streibel to Sturmbannfuhrer
    T003482 - Mem 34 = tav/113 = death certificate of Karl Streibel on 1986-08-06
    T003485 - Mem 35 = tav/114 = 1962-10-16 deposition of Streibel by Dr. Kerfner in which he claims he was following orders he could not avoid.

    T003487 - Mem 36 = tav/115 = 1974-11-07 transcript of Streibel trial in Hamburg in which he denied he knew of the extermination aim, and he only knew after the fact.

    T003490 - Mem 37 = tav/116 = 1974-11-14 transcript of Streibel trial; 2000 - 2500 people passed through Trawniki with average strength of 1000. Grabitz claims this should be 3500 - 4000.

    T003492 - Schwartzenbacher and Franz, head of battalion came to Trawniki in autumn of 1942.

    T003494 - Mem 38 = tav/117 = 1966-05-11 Streibel deposition concerning wachmann Franz Sverdersky [Svidersky?]

    T003499 - Mem 39 = tav/118 = subset of documents from Mem 38.
    T003505 - O'Connor asks for cancellation of afternoon session.
    T003510 - Levine cancels afternoon session.
    T003511 - Grabitz explains what a personalbogen is; Volksdeutscher were basically used as interpreters.

    T003513 - Franz Sverdersky [Svidersky?] changed his name to Franz Joseph Sell [Serr?, 1946-12-29]
    - Mem 40(1) = tav/119(1) = marriage certificate of Svidersky 1948
    - Mem 40(2) = tav/119(2) = death certificate of Svidersky 1978-02-25

    T003514 - Mem 41 = tav/120 = 1968-11-13 questioning of Franz Svidersky
    T003518 - Mem 42 = tav/121 = 1968-11-15 Svidersky - with list of names of people he remembers from the labor camp Treblinka. (Including Kires.)

    T003520 - Long discussion how they could try Streibel again after his acquittal.
    T003523 - Grabitz: "In 21 years of activity as a district attorney involved in prosecuting Nazi criminals, not once have I had a forged document in my files."

    T003527 - Gill: Grabitz has no doctorate, she studied law from 1954 - 1958, passed first State exam in 1958, and second State exam in 1964.

    [1987/03/31, Tue.; T003529, Vol. 7; Grabitz]
    [Top] [1987/03/25p] [1987/03/26] [1987/03/30] [1987/03/31] [Bottom]

    T003531 - POWER FAILURE interruptions.
    T003532 - Private lawyer for one year, State Attorney in autummn 1965, Nazi war crimes division in Feb. 1966, Deputy Head in 1979, Head in 1983. Speaks German and knows some English, Polish, Yiddish.

    T003539 - Streibel himself admitted that the signature on the document was his.

    T003543 - Long discussion of Russian uniforms on a picture Grabitz referred to earlier.

    T003547 - Grabitz was born on Sept 2, 1934.
    T003549 - Most of the photos came from the private collection of Mrs. Schwartzenbacher.

    T003552 - Streibel "told us that he went off on recruitment drives from the various P.O.W. camps" for Trawniki's personnel.

    T003555 - Training of Trawniki personnel was originally 3-4 months, but as needs increased, it shortened to 3-4 weeks.

    T003559 - "leaving aside the actual construction phase for which Trawnikis were also used" - the death camps had 90 - 120 Trawniki personnel.
    - Grabitz got information from relatives of Trawniki administration personnel, as well as civilian witnesses. Hearsay evidence? [Did she ever interview Trawniki people themselves? or their relatives?]

    T003562 - there were other Hiwis within the security police service and Wehrmacht, but they were totally different from the wachmanner in Trawniki.

    T003566 - Svidersky was posted to labor camp Treblinka, not extermination camp Treblinka.

    T003567 - Card index run by Leonhart.
    T003568 - Wachmanner received 50 pfennig (0.5 marks) a day. [How much did Streibel, Teufel, etc. receive?]

    T003569 - Gill asks for personalbogen of Alexander Ritidge, Nicholas Schaeffer, and Jacob Unrau (which Shaked has difficulty locating).

    T003575 - "Trawniki was not only for the wachmannschaften." The administration was police personnel, not SS. In addition to SS, there were also Waffen SS. "It was a great mishmash."

    T003579 - Shaked: Leonard, Schaeffer, and Ritidge are to be investigated by rogatory in Germany.

    T003581 - "I don't know anything about measuring height devices that might have been used." Eyes: "some say grey, others say blue."

    T003586 - "The wachmanner had to sign this statement. It wasn't an oath. It was an affidavit, instead of an oath."
    "I hereby declare under sworn statement, that my declaration is based on truth." "I further declare that I am of Aryan descent. And that among my antecedants there were no Jews, that I was neither a member of the Communist Party, nor of the Communist Youth Organisation (Komsomol)."
    [Demjanjuk was in the Komsonol before he joined the Red Army. And he is obviously not of Aryan descent.]

    T003588 - Gill: "Is this not a clear indication that the intended purpose was to seek out volksdeutsche for the role of wachmanner?"
    Grabitz: No.

    T003595 - T003915 - MISSING: Grabitz testimony of Tuesday afternoon of March 31, 1987 and Wednesday, Thursday April 1-2, 1987.

    Note: Mem 48 = tav/122 is missing

    **** END of Grabitz testimony in Vol. 7 ****

    Wolfgang Scheffler; T003916 - 4300; 1987/04/06 - 08; Vol. 7
    [1987/04/06, Mon.; T003916, Vol. 7; Scheffler]
    [Top] [1987/04/06] [1987/04/07] [1987/04/08] [1987/04/09] [Bottom]

    T003916 - O'Connor again complains that the prosecution has not given them the page numbers they will be referring to nor the Hebrew transcripts thereof.

    T003922 - Shaked translations are available (but not in the hands of the defense). Levin sides with the prosecution and against defense request.

    T003924 - Shaked: Wolfgang Scheffler will testify in 4 main parts:
    (1) Brief historical survey of Trawniki
    (2) Positive analysis of relationship to historical context
    (3) Refutation of defense arguments against the Trawniki ID card
    (4) Summary

    T003935f - The 57 year old Scheffler was born in 1930, studied political science, history, Holocaust; 3 years studying persecution of Jews in Germany, teaching at university; historical advisor to Foreign Office in 1961/62, Eichmann Trial, University of Sussex, UK, part-time expert witness since 1966 and full-time since 1971. Since 1966 he has been in 40 to 50 trials, especially Sobibor and Treblinka, Concentration camp trials and Einsatzgruppen trials.

    T003938 - Sverdersky (Svidersky?) trial involved Treblinka labor camp.
    T003941 - Scheffler testified in 1981 Demjanjuk Denaturalization trial re Trawniki and Trawniki ID card.

    T003943 - In the 1950's, Scheffler originally used the Hamburg documents. Since then he has used the archives of Koblenz Federal Republic, Freiberg Military, Berlin Document Center; more recently Eastern Europe, particularly Poland, Czechoslovakia. he obtains documents from Soviet Union via individual requests.

    T003949f - Within the General Gouvernment, there was an SS and Polizei Fuhrer, who could call on units of the Waffen SS and Polizei. Senior commander was Krueger in Cracow.
    [Krueger is never mentioned again in Scheffler's testimony.]

    T003952 - One of the five districts in the General Gouvernment was Lublin, of which Odilo Globochnik was the SS and Polizei Fuhrer.

    T003953 - Himmler envisioned a Germanization (Eindeutschung) of the Lublin district. (Leave German imprint from Baltic to Balkans, requiring expulsion of local population.) Extermination policy associated with operation Reinhardt was concentrated in the Lublin district. Three points: police security, Germanization, extermination.

    T003955f - "Now this idea of establishing SS and police bases was consistantly pursued after the attack on the Soviet Union as well, ..." Globochnik received the function of "Plenipotentiary for the establishment of SS and Polizei stutzpunkte in the occupied Eastern territories." [Plenipotentiary = deputy] [Trawniki ID card states: "fur die Errichtung der SS- und Polizeistutzpunkte im neuen Ostraum]

    T003961f - (1) SS and Polizeistutzpunkte were not implemented
    (2) Globochnik had possibility of setting up units of POW's
    (3) A limited number of Germans were made available to Globochnik

    T003964 - There were many Schutzmannschaft, Hilfsbattalion, Hilfspolizei units of POW's but they had nothing to do with Trawnikis.

    T003968 - "The decision for the so-called Endlosung, the Final Solution, was taken between September and October 1941."
    [This is pure conjecture on the part of Scheffler.]

    T003969 - Globochnik received German personnel from the T4 euthanasia program, where Kurt Franz (the last commander of Treblinka) was a cook.

    T003971 - Those German personnel "were issued with field grey uniforms of the Waffen SS". [Most eyewitnesses had testified that the Germans in Treblinka wore green uniforms.]

    T003972f - Trawniki training camp was established late July 1941 and was overrun by Red Army in July 1944. there were 65 Germans in the camp, both polizei and Waffen SS, commanded by Karl Streibel from October 27, 1941. Odilo Globochnik was replaced on Sept. 20, 1943 by Paul Sporenburg. Two battalions were hesded by [Willy] Franz and Schwartzenbacher.

    T003979 - Trawniki recruits were Soviet POW's at Chelm, Kovno, Brestlitovsk, Bialopotlavska and Bialistock. Recruited first were Volksdeutsche, next Ukrainians, and third Baltic states and others.

    T003980f - By Feb. 1942, out of 5,000,000 POW's, only 5-600,000 were suitable for work. from 3,000 up to a maximum of 4000 ex-POW's passed through Trawniki. The terms HIWIS and Askeris (a German colonial term) were synonymous.

    T003982 - Volksdeutsche were allowed to become NCO because of knowledge of German language.

    T003987 - "The Einsatzgruppen were small roving units. They had members belonging to the state police, the criminal police and the security service or SD, and also certain Waffen SS personnel."
    The main purpose of the Einsatzgruppen was to murder Jews, Commissars and political opponents, as well as doing intelligence operations.

    [I suggest their main purpose was to terrorize the inhabitants of the newly conquered territories into submission. They would be equivalent to the Smersh/MVD units terrorizing the population in the wake of the Red Army.]

    T003992 - "Naturally, they [Volksdeutsche] were not capable of writing German without mistakes." "Their spelling was certainly not at the best."

    [This a is all conjecture! Scheffler is attempting to rationalize all the mistakes which appear on the Trawniki ID card and all other Trawniki-related cards.]

    T003993 - POW's arriving in Trawniki had to be cleaned up, clothed, registered, personalbogen, card index, photographed, thumbprint.

    T003994 - "A sort of Dienstausweis was being issued to the individual wachmanner."

    T003996 - "There was no uniformity in the uniforms." [A conjecture to justify discrepancies in eyewitness testimony.]

    T003997 - Trawnikis were paid 50 pfennig a day (0.5 marks). [But what would the German personnel be paid? For example, Streibel, Teufel?]

    T003998 - The wachmanner were mainly used for guard duty of strategic places, bridges, warehouses, plants in overall sense, POW camps, Maidanik, Treblinka labor camp. also sent to "Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, for various duties, guard duties and so on in these three extermination camps."

    T003999 - "..., in the neighborhood of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, the Trawnikis were known as the blacks by virtue of the uniforms they were wearing." [But Scheffler earlier testified that there were no standard uniforms.]

    T004001 - Tal reads out ruling allowing virtually all the MEM's in the testimony of Helge Grabitz to be converted to TAV's.

    T004010 - Tal: Mem 7 to Mem 42 become tav/86 to Tav/121; Mem 48 becomes Tav/122.

    T004013 - After closing down of Sobibor, Trawnikis were sent to Sachsenhausen,Stuthof, Flossenberg, Ningamer, Dachau, Buchenwald, and earlier to Auschwitz-Birkenau; Stuthof is close to Danzig [Gdansk].

    T004015 - Every soldier and wachmann had to carry his 'soldbuch", or pay book.
    T004016 - soldbuch of Rudolf Lietz [Reiss] submitted to U.S. court by O'Connor.

    T004021 - To O'Connor's complaints that the prosecution did not give them Hebrew translations of documents, Levine says: "Over and above that, the court's administration have made available a considerable sum of money, outside of normal legal requirements, to the defense in order for them to be able to finance at least part of the expenditure involved in having these documents translated."
    [I didn't know that.]

    T004024 - 1984-01-16 protocol of Rudolf Reiss before Judge Dreeley.
    T004030 - tav/125 = Soldbuch and 14 page deposition of Rudolf Reiss originally shown to U.S. Judge Dreeley 1984-01-16.

    T004032 - pages 1 and 2 are presumably identical photos of soldbuch except page 2 has a different number A3254.
    [This was pointed out by Levine. This may have some relevance to the Wasyl Odynsky case, where there are two similar documents instead of only one.]

    T004043 - tav/126 = personalbogen of Mancourt Kareis [Ludwig Kairis?] at Trawniki, which presumably O'Connor himself submitted to U.S. court. Dates of June 17, 1942; July 20, 1942 and March 12, 1943, Treblinka.

    T004048 - tav/127 = Personalbogen of Amnonavizioz of Trawniki, from Chicago court case.

    T004058 - Levine announces that posters insulting to Sheftel have been removed from outside the building.

    [1987/04/07, Tue.; T004059, Vol. 7; Scheffler]
    [Top] [1987/04/06] [1987/04/07] [1987/04/08] [1987/04/09] [Bottom]

    T004063 - tav/124 = file card #406 of Dozenko from Glovna Commissia, Poland. [Levine had inadvertantly skipped the number 124 before.]

    T004067 - tav/118/6 = statement signed by Svidersky [Sverdersky] June 2, 1943 in Treblinka labor camp; Svidersky's number was 26.

    T004071 - The Trawniki documents were confiscated by the Soviet Army when they overran Trawniki about July 20-22, 1944.

    T004072 - Some or many documents were either transfered to or left in Poland and are accessible to Western scholars.

    T004073 - "To sum up this particular part, today we have reached a path, happily enough that western scholars, students, doctoral candidates, can today go to Poland and work unhamperedly on documents pertaining to the war years and the Nazi rule."
    [But, of course, Demjanjuk's defense team was not allowed to access these archives.]

    T004076 - Scheffler insists that all the documents are valid and that he hasn't found a single forgery.

    T004077 - "The Trawniki documents in the major part therefore were printed in Lublin, whereas the official documents concerning the SS and the police were printed by the SS and police authorities within the Third Reich."
    "This leads to two conclusions: one, when it comes to looking closely at the dienstausweis for instance, the pass book, it is the same. It is impossible to probe them by reference to the Reich, but only by reference from Trawniki."

    [This is too bizarre to believe! I simply cannot imagine Hitler or Himmler condoning their underlings printing official German documents at their own whim on random printing presses in occupied territory!]

    T004078 - "Of course, there are documents which do not give the place at which the printing was in fact carried out. The multitude of printing errors which existed in fact lead us today 40 years later on to doubt whether we are dealing with an authentic document."

    [WZ: Lublin district was the center of the Jewish underground during WWII. Leopold Trepper, the head of the Red Orchestra spy network for the Soviet Union, was born in Neumarkt, near Zakopane, Poland. The Jewish underground was renowned for its forgeries of documents for its members and had printing presses and official-looking stamps at its disposal. the possibility arises that many of these Trawniki documents were printed on these Jewish underground presses.]

    T004083 - "Today, I have the names of around 450 Trawnikis" (out of 3000 to 4000)

    T004086 - tav/124 [Dozenko] was printed at the German Armament Works in Lublin. "Finally, printing was carried out wherever something was available. And in this case, it was the DAV and there are other examples where other printing presses were used in the Lublin area."
    [It is simply not credible that the Germans would do this!]

    T004091 - tav/128 = Trawniki document of Unrau [Unrow] (original from Poland) = file index card from Stuthof concentration camp printed in Danzig [Gdansk]. T004098 - "..., it says at the very last line -- 15/11/43 S.S. Totenkamp, something, Stuthof."
    [??? Totenkamp = death camp. Unlikely to be on a German-printed document.]

    T004103 - O'Connor states Trawniki ID card is presently being tested by Anthony Cantu (Israel), as well as Albert Leiter for both prosecution/defense.

    T004106 - Shaked states prosecution will not get "involved in this reference to Armand Hammer as an agent of the KGB..."
    [It has been confirmed that Armand Hammer was, indeed, a KGB agent!]

    T004107 - Shaked: "..., we are claiming today even without these investigations, that the [Trawniki ID] document is authentic both in terms of a historic and in terms of the forensic aspect."

    T004115 - Scheffler is examining and explaining the Trawniki ID card:

          Der Beauftragte des Reichsfuhrers-SS
    fur die Errichtung der SS- und Polizeistutzpunkte
                 im Neuen Ostraum.
                 DIENSTSITZ LUBLIN

    [The first three lines are printing press printed, the last two lines are stamped. Umlauts on 3 u's omitted. WZ translation below]

    The Deputy of the Reichsfuhrer-SS
    for the erection of SS- and Police bases
    in the new Eastlands
    Official seat Lublin
    Training camp Trawniki

    T004124 - Reference to tav/104 - should be 1943-01-29, not 1942 - concerning lost pass of Suslov

    T004131 - tav/129 = 1943-02-04 Pryssl correspondence re Suslov to platoon in Kapsanik (initial P)

    T004133 - tav/130 = 1943-02-04 Pryssl correspondence re Suslov to platoon in Kapsanik (full version with Pryssl signature)
    [It doesn't make sense! Were both versions sent? or was neither version sent?]

    T004134 - tav/131 = 1943-02-04 Pryssl letter to commander of order police in Lublin indicating that Suslov's dienstausweis was lost and invalid.

    T004135 - tav/132 = 1943-02-19 Suslov letter explaining loss of dienstausweis via Pryssl to Lublin police.

    T004136 - tav/133 = 1943-03-05 Lublin police tagesbefehl indicating Suslov lost pass.

    T004137 - tav/134 = undated letter of Streibel referring to letter of 1943-02-19 to Pryssl and sending new dienstausweise to Suslov and Dimitriov.
    [I repeat, tav/129-134 don't make sense as to how the Polish Glovna Commissia got hold of them.]

    T004138 - tav/135 = 1943-03-09 Pryssl sending new Dienstausweis to Dimitriov.
    T004139 - Scheffler summarizes the significance of tav/129 - tav/135 in that Streibel issued a dienstausweis containing a photo which the recipient was obliged to carry.
    [But Scheffler does not explain how the Polish Glovna Commissia got hold of this correspondence and the probability of its doing so without "some help from friends".]

    T004140f - Scheffler returns to the Trawniki ID card where it says:

    Raum fur Anmerkungen der Dienststelle:

    [The first line is printing press printed, with odd-looking t's and one umlaut omitted on "fur". The last four lines are stamped. WZ translation below.]

    Area for Remarks of the Service Office:

    T004146 - The letters i.A. means Im Auftrag = on behalf of
    T004149 - Shaked introduces tav/91 as an example of stamp which appears on the Trawniki ID card.
    T004153 - tav/136 = personalbogen #941 of Christesh [Fritsch?]
    T004154 - tav/137 = personalbogen #1280 of Vasili Sheshieff

    T004157 - Shaked displays 6 personalbogen (tavs 118, 122, 126, 127, 136, 137) to illustrate that the number badge or tag on the photograph is not always in the same place.

    T004158 - Scheffler refers to the two stamps on the upper right and lower left corners of the Trawniki ID photo as SS Standortverwaltung Trawniki, which is a branch office of the SS Standortverwaltung Lublin.
    - signed by Teufel with rank of SS Rottenfuhrer

    T004159f - On right hand side opposite photo: Empfangene Ausrustungsgegenstande = received supplies [umlauts on u and a omitted]

    T004163 - LG. Okzow = Liegenschaftsgute Okzow = agricultural estate Okzow
    T004165 - tav/138 = Teufel payments ledger at Trawniki

    T004166 - On July 19, 1942, Teufel was promoted from SS Rottenfuhrer to SS Unterscharfuhrer [Unterfahrfuhrer?]. Conclusion: Demjanjuk arrived in Trawniki before that date.
    - Presumably, Himmler visited Trawniki on July 19, 1942, as indicated in tav/87.

    T004170 - Himmler visited Sobibor on Feb. 12, 1943
    T004172 - tav/139 = pay card of Rudolf Reiss, indicating that he was promoted on July 19, 1942 to SS Unterscharfuhrer.

    T004173 - LG. Okzow = agricultural estate run by SS; there were many more than the 6 indicated in the Globochnik report to Himmler (Part of establishment of SS bases?)

    T004174f - Scheffler states that the order of the postings and actual postings themselves were not always faithfully entered. Sept. 22, 1942 - LG. Okzow; March 27, 1943 - Sobibor. It is possible that Demjanjuk's posting to Treblinka was not entered. Refer to Unrau (tav/128), Chernievski (tav/122),who on June 26, 1942 was posted to labor camp Treblinka and (tav/123) on July 25, 1942 was posted to death camp Treblinka.

    T004178f - tav/140 = 1943-09-01 recommendation of promotion of Chernievski signed by Kurt Franz.
    [Note that this is after the Aug. 2, 1943 uprising, when Treblinka was in the process of being closed.]

    T004182 - tav/141 [tav/101 is presumably error] = Personal questionnaire of Rudolf Reiss - shows discrepancy in height.

    T004191 - Scheffler: "Let me stress it once again, and make it crystal clear, this Dienstausweis is specifically for the Trawnikis, for no one else."

    T004193 - The slanted "t" which appears on the Trawniki ID card also appears on Dozenko's card (tav/124) which presumably was printed at DRW Lublin, Deutscheausweishaunker Lublin - the German Armaments Works.

    T004196 - Scheffler claims to have never come across a forged document from the USSR. However, he admits that he has never seen a card similar to the Trawniki ID card.
    "At any rate, we have not found a single such ID document to date. We would really have liked to but we have not been able to find one. In other words, we have only a single Dienstausweis of this type. We would greatly have liked to have more, but it is a fact that we have just one single Dienstausweis, which is this one."
    [Obviously, the prosecution had not yet received 3 similar ID cards of Wallenbachow, Juchnowskij, Bondarenko from the USSR.]

    T004198 - "Dorohutcha is an external camp of the Trawniki SS training camp, outlying camp."

    T004198 - tav/142 = Railway consignment note 1943-11-04 of Treblinka equipment to Trawniki.

    [1987/04/08, Wed.; T004200, Vol. 7, 8; Scheffler]
    [Top] [1987/04/06] [1987/04/07] [1987/04/08] [1987/04/09] [Bottom]

    T004200f - 1987/04/08 O'Connor cross-examination of Scheffler - born in 1929, escaped from Leipzig to West Berlin in 1950, his father, born in 1900, was a grammar school teacher and a member of the NSDAP before 1945.

    T004208 - Received diploma in 1954 and Ph.D. in 1956.
    T004210f - From 1956-1959, worked in research group on "Resistance and Persecution During the Years of Nazi Rule" (of Jews) for the German Senate. Disbanded due to lack of funding, but he wrote a book in 1960, which was also translated into Japanese.

    T004220 - Scheffler examined file of Christian Wirth (Wiert?), known to his subordinates as Der Schreckliche Christian in Treblinka.

    T004227 - In 1957 or 58, there was the Ulm Einsatzcommando trial of the Einsatzgruppe operating in East Prussia and Lithuanian border region.

    T004235 - Scheffler attended the trial of Eichmann "to analyze the interrogation of Eichmann in those famous 6 blue volumes and similar jobs."

    T004241 - Scheffler has never met Tuvia Friedman or visited his Vienna Documentation Center, which has a lot of material on Treblinka.

    T004248f - O'Connor implies that Scheffler's students have no difficulty in getting into the archives in Poland, whereas the Demjanjuk defense could not gain access.

    T004254 - Scheffler testified in the 1981 Demjanjuk Cleveland trial and in New York at Maikowsky trial at the invitation of the OSI.

    T004256 - Norman Moscowitz (many months before the 1981 Demjanjuk trial) telephoned and visited Scheffler in Berlin with a copy of the Trawniki ID card and other documents.

    T004286 - At the Franz Stangel trial, "I was to provide the court with indications about the estimated number of persons murdered in the camp ..."
    [He never does reveal how many!]

    T004290 - "Secondly, the actual [index] cards were sent to Berlin to me by the prosecution here in Jerusalem."

    T004293 - "At Hagen, there were two Sobibor proceedings in which I took part." [This could be important to the Demjanjuk defense in 1999.]

    T004300 - Scheffler: "..., I have never in any proceedings had to deal with the question of authenticity or not of a document in such great depth and detail as in these proceedings. This is the first time that I have come across something like this."

    **** END of Scheffler testimony in Vol. 7 ****

    Wolfgang Scheffler; T004301 - 4557; 1987/04/08 - 09; Vol. 8

    T004309 - Volksdeutsche Paul Fessler applied for naturalization in 1944 using a Hiwi Dienstausweis as identification.

    T004316 - Germany, U.S. and Israel have asked the Soviet Union for more Trawniki ID cards, but there has been no response.

    T004322f - O'Connor reads from document supplied by Shaked, that Trawniki had 2 offices - an administrative unit and an operations unit headed by policeman, Albert Drexel, whereas Scheffler had earlier [T004321] testified that Drexel was head of the administrative unit.

    T004327f - Scheffler doesn't know if Hiwis carried "tin disks with numbers on them" for ID purposes; if they had blood-type tattoos.
    [Did they ever ask Fedorenko or other Hiwis about this?]

    T004330 - Scheffler never asked any people who might be familiar with such things: "It would be an unfair offense against my historical expertise if I came to people who had performed an active task and had put questions to them. This is something that I, as a researcher, cannot do."
    [Who better than a historian to ask such questions?]

    "I am barred from interviewing what might be a potential witness, who might be called to give evidence in a court and talk to them before that."
    [ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE! How can Scheffler come to any conclusions, if he doesn't speak to the people involved. Scheffler is being willfully blind.]

    T004331 - Levin asks Scheffler: "..., have you as part of that research work, also interviewed people who were at Trawniki?"
    Scheffler: "No."

    T004333 - Scheffler doesn't know which branch (administrative or operations) Rudolf Reiss belonged to.

    T004342 - The organizational running of the extermination camps was Christian Wirth.

    T004348f - Dr. Ermfried Eberl of the T4 Euthanasia program was the first commander of the Treblinka death camp. Most of the German personnel in Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka were from the T4 program.

    T004356f - Names at random: Nikolai, Ivan, Fritz Schmidt; Hackelhalt, Fuchs or Boa, Grossman, Potsinger - more than 120 personnel; Scheffler has 27 names [Askaris] of the whole unit in Treblinka, and is working on Sobibor and Belzec.

    T004358 - "It's a question of the simple fact of trying first of all to determine by name which Trawnikis were at which camps. It is a very lengthy process, but I can tell you that within a reasonable period of time, we will have a fairly solid ground for being able to say this. For the moment I have something like 27 persons for the Treblinka death camp ..." [Any bets that Scheffler will be testifying in the Demjanjuk 1999 trial?]

    T004359 - Alfred Bilitz "is in the card index of the German personnel" (1 of 120)

    T004362 - "The SS leadership here was that for the future, there should be a network created of bases that was mixed, consisting of agricultural estates known as "Liegenschaftguter" and at the same time involving the creation of SS and Police bases." [such as LG. Okzow]

    T004370 - letter of Mikali in spring of 1944 indicated Russland Deutscher were to be naturalized.

    T004373 - Scheffler implies that the term Untermenschen applied only to Bolshevists and Jews, and not Ukrainians.
    [NOT TRUE! I have heard eyewitness accounts where Germans referred to Ukrainians as Untermenschen to their faces!]

    T004376 - Battle of Kirsch, Crimea, was May 19, 1942 where the Germans captures thousands of POWs, from which 3 or 4 ended up in Trawniki.

    T004380 - A 21 year old Ukrainian who had served in the Komsomol would not have been chosen for Trawniki [i.e. Demjanjuk].

    T004382f - Ludwig (Leitus) Karres [Kairis?] (tav/126) had OSI denaturalization proceedings in US. Mr. Springer and an OSI attorney questioned Scheffler about Kairys case.

    T004388 - references to Soviet charges re Sobibor, Flossenberg, Regensberg against Demjanjuk.

    T004389 - O'Connor: "However, there is an active order of deportation to Moscow awaiting John Demjanjuk if and when he is able to prove that he is not Ivan the Terrible in these proceedings."

    [1987/04/09, Thu.; T004391, Vol. 8; Scheffler]
    [Top] [1987/04/06] [1987/04/07] [1987/04/08] [1987/04/09] [Bottom]

    T004400f - When a person was brought to Trawniki, he was deloused and issued clothing. Scheffler does not know the order of the subsequent procedure.
    [I submit that the order is extremely important. In fact, the defense should ask the prosecution to submit a detailed flow chart of this procedure to the court.]
    - At first they were issued black-colored uniforms and later earth-brown uniforms.
    [Where were these uniforms manufactured and by whom?]
    - Unfortunately, there were no color pictures during WWII, so it is difficult to say what color the uniform was except by shades of grey.

    T004424 - "First of all, there are documents from Trawniki which were printed at different or various places. Secondly, there are documents without an indication of the place of printing." "Now when in 1943 the economic and administrative SS main office took over the control, then you find these documents coming from Weisbogen, Bavaria from the central printing works."

    T004424f - long discussion of typewriters and typefaces of printing presses. Scheffler claims that different t's were used for emphasis. [Simply not true, when one looks at the Trawniki ID card.]

    T004429 - In addition to D.A.V., "we come up with two other possible printing works, also in the Lublin area."
    [In my opinion, it is important to find what they were, what they did, who worked there, who operated the printing presses, examples of other materials they printed.]

    T004430f - Gill tries in various ways to suggest the Trawniki ID card is a forgery. (1) Complete forgery, (2) starting with blank form (3) etc., but comes off very badly. He ends with reference to the forgery of the Hitler diaries.

    T004442 - Tav/122 (Dozenko) has an entry of Orianberg, which is a suburb of Berlin and not in the Lublin district. Original Orianberg concentration camp was demolished in 1936-37 and replaced with Sachsenhuasen.

    T004450 - "The Svidersky trial is the only trial against a "Hiwi" that has taken place in the Federal Republic."

    T004452 - Gill returns to T's in Tavs 127, 136 and 137.
    T004455 - When Horowitz contacted Scheffler to give expert opinion, Horowitz sent all the documents to Scheffler.

    T004457 - Trawniki ID card says height is 175 cm, whereas doctor measured 180 cm.
    T004459 - Ruksak (handwritten) should be Rucksack
    - The size of the handwritten number 1 beside Ruksak is different than other #1's on the page. Different writer?

    T004461 - Gill asks if any Askaris or Trawniki personnel were used in typesetting or in printing of the material.
    [GOOD QUESTION, but Levin twists it into filling out the forms, so it is not answered.]

    T004462f - Question re colors of ink, pencil or pen is withdrawn.
    T004468 - Teufel seems to have used several different pens to fill in the blanks.

    T004470 - Levin: "In tav/137 in the white rectangle a number can be made out. In Mem 1 Bet, page C [Trawniki ID card] no number can be seen. How would the witness explain the difference?"
    [Scheffler's answer, that it is a question of lighting, misses the point. The question should be "What is the point of having a number on a photograph, if you can't see it clearly?"]

    T004471 - The size of the rectangle is different on the two photographs.
    T004473 - Why no entry to Treblinka on Trawniki ID card.

    T004476f - Reference to Russian writing and Russian expertise.
    [To my knowledge, neither the prosecution nor the defense has tried to determine who the Russian translator was, if she is still alive, have her testify, etc., etc. TO ME, THIS IS CRUCIAL!]

    T004483f - Gill attempts to ask questions which are all disallowed (about Soviet view of a Nazi collaborator; why they paid his mother a pension cheque; etc.)

    T004489f - Gill attempts to submit a German-language document in which Streibel states that he does not remember signing a document such as the Trawniki ID card.

    T004491 - Gill: "Your honor, Streibel himself says he doesn't in the affidavit, sir, he says he doesn't recall signing it. He also states that he wanted to see the original. Colonel Streibel indicated that he did not recall signing this or any other document similar to it. He indicated that he himself wanted to see the original before he could ultimately make a decision as to whether or not it was or was not his signature."

    T004493 - Sheftel: "Streibel claims, says that he cannot remember ever signing a document like Mem 1 or any other document of the Mem 1 type. He further says that he cannot confirm that in Trawniki such documents in fact [were] put out."

    T004495 - Scheffler: "He [Streibel] would have incriminated himself had he given a different answer."

    T004496 - Scheffler: "As concerns the background, I must say I knew that there was such a passage. I got this from a defense document by a journalist in the Federal Republic by the name of Roelman [Rullman?] and it concerned a statement which he claimed to have got from the east, from the service in the east [???], and in this statement by this journalist there was a passage which you are now referring to; in which he gave this, or made this sort of statement."
    [Scheffler refuses to budge from his opinion that the Trawniki ID card is authentic, no matter what Streibel may have said.]

    T004496 - "... Streibel claims that a document such as Mem 1 or in fact any document from Trawniki, generally speaking always bore a date."

    T004498 - Levin: Tav/37 [tav/137?] has no date on either front or back.
    T004498 - Sheftel quotes from Streibel's 1960 affidavit recorded in tav/117 on May 11, 1966, which later Streibel retracted.

    T004501 - Levin: "This statement of course was put before Streibel while he was remanded in custody, but not at his own trial, but in the Metcik trial."
    [It is astounding that Levin is so familiar with the Streibel testimony.]

    T004502 - John Demjanjuk interrupts and insists O'Connor ask a question regarding the color of the uniforms.

    T004510 - O'Connor shows Scheffler nun/36 regarding a missing button on the uniform.

    T004514 - John Demjanjuk poses some questions to Scheffler concerning black or yellowish uniforms. He has Scheffler and Levin look at button on the collar of nun/36 and state whether thisa button is on a field jacket or on a shirt.

    T004520 - Demjanjuk: "I would like here to thank the Professor and also of course the court and I would also like to thank everybody who has listened to me and I would like to express my gratitude for this possibility of asking my questions. I would like in this way to thank everybody who has taken part in this.."

    T004522 - Willy Belitz, from T4 to Treblinka, to Italy and disappeared. Six references to him in Dusseldorf trials.

    T004525f - O'Connor reveals that court did not give "money" for translations, they allowed the defense to use the translation services of Dennis Gouldman who is very busy translating for the prosecution. Levine insists that money was made available to the defense to be disbursed at their discretion.

    T004537 - tav/143 = Trawniki index card #941 of Pritch [Fritch?]


    **** END of Scheffler testimony in Vol. 8 and in trial ****

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