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  • Altmann - German police
  • Smith - Israeli dentist
  • Gideon Epstein - U.S. forensic expert

    Witnesses for the prosecution in transcripts04.html

    (Jerusalem, Feb. 16, 1987 - Apr. 24, 1988)
    SUMMARY of English-language TRANSCRIPTS

    Reinhardt Altmann; T005160 - 5174; 1987-04-27; Vol. 9
    [1987/04/27p, Mon.; T005160, Vol. 9; Altmann]
    [Top] [1987/04/27p] [1987/04/28] [1987/04/29] [Bottom]

    T005160f - Investigator for Criminal Police Force of West German Federal Police. Born in 1940-10-10, German Police in 1959, Breitshaft Polizei, Schutz Polizei in Hildersheim, Kriminal Polizei, Commissioners office, forensic service. In 1968 moved to Wiesbaden to Bundeskriminalamt, became fingerprint expert, since 1979 set up a unit to recognize facial features, comparison of images, burglary suspects often "leave earprints on the door", determine features of face. [T005174]

    **** END of Altmann testimony 1987/04/27 and in Vol. 9 ****

    Reinhardt Altmann; T005175 - 5235; 1987-04-28; Vol. 6
    [1987/04/28, Tue.; T005175, Vol. 6; Altmann]
    [Top] [1987/04/27p] [1987/04/28] [1987/04/29] [Bottom]

    T005175f - Altmann draws brow, lip, ear characteristics on blackboard
    T005183f - photograph comparisons
    T005186 - Quality of photograph is important: "But otherwise, we really have to require the negative to be provided."

    T005191f - Scale of identification (1) not identifiable, (2) likely, (3) probable, (4) with high probability, (5) with very high probability, (6) probability bordering on certainty (7) certainty.
    [Presumably, Altmann came up with very high probability.]

    T005211 - Altmann received Tav/43 (8 Demjanjuk photos including 1947, 1947, 1958, 1983, 1986, as well as Trawniki ID photo from Israel Police via Israeli Ambassador in Bonn.
    [Where tav/43 consists of 8 Demjanjuk photos
    - #1 - photostat of Trawniki ID photo
    - #2 - Demjanjuk photo - Red Army 1941
    - #3 - Demjanjuk photo - driver's license 1947
    - #4 - Demjanjuk photo - immigration visa 1951
    - #5 - Demjanjuk photo - citizenship certificate 1958
    - #6 - Demjanjuk photo - wedding certificate 1947
    - #7 - Demjanjuk photo - daughter's wedding 1983
    - #8 - Demjanjuk photo - in detention in Israel 1986]

    T005152f - O'Connor protests that the defense has not seen the photos that Altmann has prepared and is using. The prosecution should have supplied them to the defense.

    T005222 - tav/150 = photo album of Demjanjuk prepared by Reinhardt Altmann from tav/43.
    T005233 - tav/151 = Altmann's written report explaining tav/150.

    T005236 - T005291 - MISSING

    Reinhardt Altmann; T005292 - 5390; 1987-04-29; Vol. 6
    [1987/04/29, Wed.; T005292, Vol. 9; Altmann]
    [Top] [1987/04/27p] [1987/04/28] [1987/04/29] [Bottom]

    T005292f - Colleagues who worked with Altmann: Schauer.
    T005301 - The splitting of the face, whether horizontal or vertical, was far more effective than superposition of one photograph over another.

    T005309 - To O'Connor's question whether Altmann could detect fingerprints on the Trawniki ID card, Altmann replies, yes, if it is there.

    T005310f - Bezalely showed the original Trawniki ID card to Altmann in Germany on Dec. 19, 1986. Presumably, Altmann also sent his expert testimony to the Israeli Embassy in Bonn on Dec. 19, 1986. [However, T005384 states Dec. 10, 1986.] Altmann did no tests on it, held it in his hand for only a minute and then Bezalely left.

    T005316f - O'Connor points out that Altmann's photo is lighter than on original tav/149.
    T005336 - Argument that Altmann's photo set is different than that submitted to court.
    T005336 - nun/40 = Altmann's own photo album corresponding to tav/150.
    T005347 - nun/41 = 3 pictures of Demjanjuk from Swiss newspaper

    T005343f - nun/42 = a photographic positive given to Altmann by O'Connor.
    - O'Connor asks Altmann to give him an expert opinion on the morphological features on the photograph. Altmann refuses and Levin supports Altmann.

    T005361 - O'Connor quotes from pages T005207, T005208 where Altmann stated that "very high probability" requires a distinguishing feature.

    T005367 - Levin intervenes and claims there is no contradiction. [This is simply not true, according to what Altmann himself said on page T005208!]

    T005370 - O'Connor refers to Altmann testimony on T005235.
    - Pictures 9 and 10 are enlargements of pictures 1 and 2, and had to be excluded from the "very high probability" ranking.
    [Where picture 1 is a photostat of Trawniki ID photo.]

    T005373 - left eyebrow in picture 10
    T005374 - left eyelid in picture 10
    T005379 - Only photos 9 (enlargement of tav/149 photo) and 12 are frontal views.

    T005384 - 1986-12-10 Altmann sent to Israeli Embassy in Bonn, 3 cardboard sheets with 8 photos and expert opinion, together with album of photos which he had prepared [tav/150].
    [On T005310, it is implied that expert opinion was sent Dec. 19, 1986]

    T005388 - Levin ruling concerning rogatory: between May 17 and June 12, 1987;
    - (1) Valance Amanavisios in Belgium; Helmut Leonard, Heinrich Shapper and Otto Horn in West Germany
    - (2) Panel of judges requested to attend
    - (3) Judges said yes
    - (4) Rogatory of Otto Horn during week of June 7, 1987 in Berlin
    - (5) Defense asked for rogatories in Poland and Spain

    [W.Z. Summary: In my opinion, O'Connor concentrated too much on the nitty gritty of Altmann's testimony and not enough on the general concepts.
    (1) I would suggest that Altmann's techniques are applicable when you have 2 or more completely separate pictures and the dispute is whether this is the same person.
    (2) However, it is not applicable, when one of the photos has been altered from an original photo. In this case, the morphological features will be the same, but distorted in some fashion.
    (3) From my own experience with image analysis, I know that you can distort a 2 dimensional image into anything you want.
    (4) It is my understanding, that the Demjanjuk defense does not exclude the possibility that the Trawniki photo is based on a real photo of John Demjanjuk.
    [Perhaps his earlier army photo or a later post-WWII photo. They contend that it has been altered from the original.]
    (5) O'Connor should have asked if Altmann can determine if the positive print was made from the original negative, or if it was made from a negative of a print. (i.e. a print of a print)

    **** END of Altmann testimony in trial and in Vol. 6 ****

    Patricia Smith; T005391 - 5697; 1987/04/30 - 05/06; Vol. 10
    [1987/04/30, Thu.; T005391, Vol. 10; Smith]
    [Top] [1987/04/30] [1987/05/05] [1987/05/06] [Bottom]

    T005391f - Professor Patricia Smith of the School of Dentistry of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem testifies in English.
    - Studied at London Hospital Medical College, degree in dental surgery in 1961, came to Israel at end of 1962, studied dental disease with Prof. Rozenzweig, 1 year children's dentistry, 1 year anatomy department, 1966-1969 graduate student at University of Chicago in anthropology, Ph.D. in Physical Anthropology in 1970, became Israeli citizen in September 1969, 1 year army service in June 1970.

    T005394f - Research into changes in head, face and jaws with time
    - Associate editor of the Journal of Dental Research, Israel Association of Anthropology, in 1974 award to spend 6 months working with Dr. Jeremy Walker developing automated data processing of 2-D images, teaches course in dental morphology, 5 M.A. students and 2 Ph.D. students, 76 publications.

    T005399 - tav/153 = Patricia Smith list of publications and cv.
    T005402 - tav/154 = Patricia Smith poster
    T005409 - tav/155 = Skull representation (Smith)
    T005413 - tav/156 = Smith diagram of development of soft and hard tissues in the skull

    T005418 - Height of lower part of face [over teeth] between ages of 20 and late 40's can either decrease or increase by 0.5 cm.

    T005420 - tav/157 = diagram from book by Martin Seller (Smith)
    T005422 - tav/158 = morphology of lips (Smith)
    T005423 - tav/159 = morphology of eyes (Smith)
    T005425 - tav/160 = morphology of nose (Smith)
    T005427 - tav/161 = morphology of ear (Smith)
    T005432 - tav/162 = morphology of face (Smith)

    T005449 - tav/163-164 = Photograph of twins #1 and #2 (Smith)
    - Dr. Townsend of Adelaide University, Australia, sent face photos of 8 sets of identical twins to Patricia Smith.

    T005456 - tav/165 = list of measurements of tav/163-164 taken by Smith
    T005460 - tav/166 = Smith photomontage of Demjanjuk, 3 photos from 1942, 1947 and 1958.
    T005462 - tav/167 = list of measurements of by Smith of tav/166

    T005464 - tav/168 = table of measurements by Smith on 3 photos of tav/166
    [For the last 62 pages Smith has lectured as if her lecture has some relevance to her testimony concerning Demjanjuk. Just a build up.]

    T005467f - Smith, in effect, concludes that the difference in her measurements on the Demjanjuk photos is less than the difference between the twins. She concludes that the individual in photos 1 (Trawniki ID photo) and 5 (1958 citizenship certificate) are the same.

    T005474f - Smith has transparencies of tav/163-164 to illustrate points. T005484 - tav/169 = K.A. Brown, "Developments in Cranio-Facial Superposition for Identification".

    [1987/05/05, Tue.; T005487, Vol. 10; Smith]
    [Top] [1987/04/30] [1987/05/05] [1987/05/06] [Bottom]

    T005489 - tav/170 = H. Hagemeier, "Identification of a Skull by Electronic Superposition of Images"

    T005492 - Smith: "Here I must point out that the 3 photographs which I have chosen, from the point of view of superposition, were chosen because they were those which gave the best compatibility from the point of view of the angle of the photograph, but they are of course not exactly identical."
    [Smith never states, and presumably never determined, how many degrees the head was rotated in each of these pictures.]

    T005496 - " ... and again I restrict myself to the left side of the face." [Because she has trouble explaining discrepancies on the right side of the face.]
    - "In other words, having examined the transparencies very carefully, I feel that once again there can be no shadow of doubt that we are dealing with the same individual."
    [But the defense conceded that it is possible, and even likely, that the Trawniki ID photo is based on a real photo of Demjanjuk.]

    T005497 - Levin points out that Smith's conclusion is based upon the comparison of photos 1 and 5. He asks Smith to compare 1 and 3, which isn't nearly as good.

    T005499 - Smith asked police to make video film of Demjanjuk for her comparison.
    [Smith never states when the video was shot.]

    T005502 - "Subsequently, I was given funding to make a new video in a professional studio and I brought the video here today." [Funding by whom?]

    T005506f - O'Connor argues vehemently against showing the video in court, calling it a gross slander. He even goes into biblical examples. He calls it a Hollywood production. "And I can guarantee your honour, there will be hundreds of millions of individuals watching this production almost instantly." Levin ignores protest.

    T005523 - tav/171 = Smith videotape of Demjanjuk in Ayalon prison with Trawniki ID photo superposed. Lasts 7 minutes.

    T005526 - The film is shown. Smith concludes: "I calculated the probability based on 14 features, using less than 10 categories for each feature, and came to a sum of 1 in several hundred billion."

    T005527 - "All the examinations that I have carried out, my conclusion is that the 1942 photograph was in fact taken of the individual John Demjanjuk seen in the other photographs and seen in the video today."

    T005529 - Gill cross-examines Smith; states that a copy of the videotape will be sent to the U.S. for assessment.

    T005536f - Gill quotes 11 body measurements used by Bertillon as landmarks and points out that none of them relate to any part of her test. Bertillon used the right ear as reference and Smith commented on Demjanjuk's left ear.

    T005548 - In 1899, "Alfonse Bertillon substantiated the bordereaux that ultimately caused the conviction and the imposition of a life sentence on Alfred Dreyfuss."

    T005566 - Levin refuses to allow Gill to use Levin, Shaked, O'Connor or anybody else as an example for Smith to demonstrate her analysis.

    T005585 - Levin refuses to allow Smith to do measurements on a blowup of photo #1 of tav/43. He refers to his Altmann ruling.
    [Levin refuses to have the expert witnesses demonstrate their expertise. Or perhaps the lack of it! Throughout the Patricia Smith testimony, Levin and the other judges blatantly side with the prosecution and Smith against the defense.]

    [1987/05/06, Wed.; T005593, Vol. 10; Smith]
    [Top] [1987/04/30] [1987/05/05] [1987/05/06] [Bottom]

    T005593 - Smith was approached by Dr. Almog in March 1986 to give expert opinion. Not officially retained. Helped by David Laser [Lazar], Uri Poitner; David, Ephriam, Andre [Schlank] for video; Dr. Grant Townsend sent material on twins from Adelaide University, Australia.

    T005629 - Photo #2 in tav/43 = "photograph of John Demjanjuk as a Russian soldier in 1941."
    Gill: "... did you compare that picture to any other picture or photograph, rather, that had been presented to you with regard to this case?"
    Smith: "No."
    [Why did Smith not compare this photo? Why does Gill let the matter drop? This is especially important, since Demjanjuk himself states that the Trawniki ID photo reminds him of his Red Army days.]

    T005632 - "The problem was that the original snapshots that I was given were all of different sizes. It was very difficult to make any comparable measurements on them." So she enlarged them, using the distance between the left eye and the mouth as a standard.

    T005645 - No tests were made on photos #2, 6, 7, 8 of tav/43. [What about #4 (1951)? Smith always refers to #1(1942), #3(1947), #5(1958).]

    T005655 - Gill refers to reservations of Brown himself (tav/169) to the super-imposition method.

    T005661 - Levin: Andre Schlank is operating video in courtroom.
    T005664f - Gill steps through videotape from about 5:20 minutes.
    - difference in neck length or shoulder height.
    [Was Demjanjuk head pasted onto uniform?]
    - nose in 1942 picture is slightly wider
    - eyes are completely different
    - left ear is clearly lower
    - difference in eyebrows

    T005668 - Viewing videotape: "And at the same time that the ear was higher, the eyes appeared to be somewhat lower?"

    T005681 - Smith: "There are only 3 shots of the video that were used for comparison."
    [Then why show the whole video? Just to demonstrate to the world that you are participating in a Show Trial?]

    T005686 - Gill: "Is there any reason why, Professor Smith, that here, as you have just indicated, that it might be possible to make that measurement, why the ear was cropped out of the video presentation?"

    [T005697, End 1987/05/06]

    [W.Z. Summary:
    To me, the whole of Patricia Smith's testimony was just show with very little real substance. In my opinion, the defense did a very poor job in discrediting the relevance of the testimony of Smith, although they did try to protest against showing the videotape and later tried to discredit some of the contents.

    (1) They should have insisted that Smith state or estimate the angle of the head in each of the photos. Thereafter, it is easy to calculate what the proper distances should be. Instead, they allowed Smith to do a lot of arm waving to explain away the discrepancies.

    (2) The data on the twins is just public relations with no relevance to the issue at hand. She quotes discrepancies of 3.8% in one set of female twins, but does not state if this is true of all identical twins on the planet. Neither does she state what the discrepancies would be for the general public. Even more interesting would be measurements on hand picked 22 year old males who look similar to Demjanjuk.

    (3) As far as I know, the defense has never claimed that the Trawniki ID photo is of a different person. They suggest that the photo is a composite of demjanjuk's head onto the torso of a different body. Secondly, it is possible that the shape of Demjanjuk's head was modified for the picture.

    (4) One must keep in mind that a b/w photo is just a grid of black and white dots. With image manipulation one can make it look like and fit anything one wants to.

    (5) I do not understand why Gill did not question Smith very closely about the 1941 Red Army photo (#2 in tav/43)

    **** END of Smith testimony in trial and Vol. 10 ****

    Gideon Epstein; T005698 - 5893; 1987/05/07 - 11; Vol. 10
    [1987/05/07, Thu.; T005698, Vol. 10; Gideon Epstein]
    [Top] [1987/05/07] [1987/05/11] [Bottom]

    T005698 - Gideon Epstein, forensic document examiner with U.S. Crime Lab in 1967 - 1978, U.S. Treasury until 1980, U.S. INS Forensic Document Lab since 1980. Expert witness for 18 years on handwriting.

    T005701 - Dec. 18, 1980, OSI brought photocopies of Trawniki ID document for analysis. Epstein examined both the photocopies and later the original. He testified at the Feb. 1981 Demjanjuk denaturalization trial in Cleveland.
    "It was on February 27th, I believe, 1981, that the document was made available at the Soviet Embassy in Washington, DC and I travelled to that location with a portable laboratory, and by that I mean that equipment that I needed in order to conduct my examinations."

    T005702 - Verified findings reached on examination of photocopies concerning signatures of Streibel, Teufel and Demjanjuk; looked at possibility of alteration or substitution of text.
    - Testified at Demjanjuk Denaturalization trial on March 3, 1981
    - Photographed Trawniki ID card in Soviet Embassy [color or black and white?]

    T005703 - Shaked: "And the original document was submitted to the court, was identified by the court, and was replaced by these photographs which you had taken of the document at the Embassy in Washington."

    T0005708 - tav/172a = Epstein enlarged photo of front of Trawniki ID document
    [color or b/w?]
    - tav/172b = Epstein enlarged photo of inside of Trawniki ID document
    [color or b/w?]

    T005712 - Sheftel: "May it please the court, we are not prepared to agree that tav/149 is in fact the same document that the honorable witness examined at the Soviet Embassy." [Playing games.]
    - Overruled by Levin

    T005714f - Epstein explains things on enlargement of tav/172a
    T005717 - tav/173a = Epstein enlargement of tav/172a
    T005719 - tav/173b = Epstein enlargement of tav/172b

    T005723 - Epstein: Three stages of handwriting, (1) examination of disputed handwriting, (2) examination of known handwriting, (3) comparison between the two, were applied to the alleged signatures of Teufel, Streibel and Demjanjuk on tav/149.

    T005725f - Epstein compared Streibel signature on tavs/90, 89, 111, 110, 109 = tav/145(3, 2, 8, 9, 7)

    T005726 - Epstein: "I examined those documents [tav/145.2, tav/145.3] in their original condition on April 27th in Frankfurt, Germany." (At the American Consulate, then they were returned to the Berlin Document Center.)

    T005728 - tav/149 - "rather coarse paper stock, which has rather large fibers in the paper." "So some spaces here ... are nothing more than the pen moving over very large fibres."
    [So why does this problem not appear on the other signatures and the rest of the handwriting on the card?]

    T005737f - the signatures in tav/145(8, 9, 7) = tavs/111, 110, 109 were photographed and sent to Epstein from Israel specifically for this trial.

    T005739f - Epstein compares Teufel signatures 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 = tavs/149, 94, 95, 97a, 97b = tav/145(17, 20, 19, 21, 26)

    T005740 - Epstein examined tavs/94, 95 originals at Westmuthausen, Germany on April 28, 1987.
    - Certified copies of tavs/97a, 97b (signatures 4 and 5) from 1963-05-01 Teufel U.S. immigration(?) visa application were used by Epstein for the 1981 Cleveland denaturalization trial. Epstein has never seen the originals.
    [??? Then how can he testify about them?]

    T005743 - Epstein explains that there is an evolution of a person's signature with time, such that there is a distinct difference between the 1934 signature (tav/95) and 1966 signature (tav/94). The signature on tav/149 is more similar to that of 1966, than to 1934.
    [Does that imply the Teufel signature on tav/149 could have been made in 1965?]

    T005749 - Epstein concludes that Teufel signature on tav/149 is authentic.

    T005751f - Epstein starts to testify on the Demjanjuk signature on tav/149. In U.S. Epstein testified only on the signatures of Teufel and Streibel and not on that of Demjanjuk
    - Levin: "Let's leave the United States apart. You [Shaked] submitted the contents of his opinion on the 30th of May 1986" - which presumably refers to Teufel and Streibel signatures only.

    T005752 - Levin sustains Sheftel's objection and forbids Epstein to testify on the Demjanjuk signature, unless and until it comes up in cross-examination.
    [And it never does!]

    T005753 - Epstein concludes that tav/149 "is a genuine document, that it does not bear any evidence of being authored [altered?], text substituted, or in any way fraudulently prepared."

    T005755f - Gill cross-examination of Epstein
    - Epstein's general background and expertise

    T005766f - Epstein worked on the Sokolov case for the OSI; over a dozen cases since 1980; majority of documents were German, such as dienstausweises, intercamp memos, etc.

    T005768 - long discussion of standards vs exemplars

    T005773 - Epstein: "If another Trawniki card was found and it could be determined that that Trawniki card was genuine, then of course it would be the best standard."
    - Epstein's first assignment on Demjanjuk case was Dec. 18, 1980; he presumably knows German.

    T005776 - for the Demjanjuk Denaturalization trial in 1980-81, no one else was involved and he did everything himself.

    T005777 - Since his involvement with the State of Israel [date?], Epstein had assistance of James Larner, a printing specialist.

    T005778 - Epstein carried out tests on photostats of Trawniki ID card on Dec. 18-19, 1980; additional examinations on Jan. 27, 1981.

    T005779 - Examination of original [Feb. 27, 1981] inside Soviet Embassy.
    T005781 - Gill tries to find out about triangular notch removed from top of card. Epstein claims ignorance.

    T005784f - Epstein believes only one typewriter was used on tav/149; but did not establish make of typewriter; did not determine number of Russian or German writers or writings on card; did not determine if Teufel wrote other things besides signature.

    T005786 - Epstein: "There is no way that you can take the name Teufel and compare it to numbers, or to the 'ruksak' underneath and come up with any type of conclusion." (Same with Streibel.)

    T005788 - With respect to the 2's after Mantel, Unterhosen and Unterhemd, cannot determine whether the same person made them.

    T005792 - Gill asks Epstein to look at tav/149 and relate all the colors thereon:
    - yellow stains on front and back
    - "aqua blue, the light blue of the Demjanjuk signature" [Green?]
    - "little bit darker blue of the Teufel signature"
    - "pencil blue writing" = Russian translation over top of German (Socken, etc.)
    - "red pencil up in the right hand corner and a blue pencil" on RHS
    - "purple ink which is the Russian translation" - both front and back
    - "black stamped impressions"
    - "lighter color perhaps of black or even a darker color of blue" - on stamped impression to left of Streibel signature.
    - ["purple ink" in staple holes in photo near left ear.]

    T005794 - During tests on Feb. 27, 1981 in Soviet Embassy, all the spots floresce under ultraviolet light which Epstein would attribute to glue.
    - "... in my other examinations of documents where glue was used from the same period of time, I found that it did floresce, that is the common characteristic of glue from that period of time ..."

    T005795 - Gill: card has no date of issue and no date of expiration
    T005797 - suggests the holes to right of left ear are staple holes; purple ink in the staple holes.

    T005798 - Epstein did not notice abrasion, perhaps caused by paper clip near N1 on photo.

    T005799 - Epstein: It is usual for passport or identity photos in the U.S. to have staple holes in them, because they are often attached to the application forms.

    [1987/05/11, Mon.; T005802, Vol. 10; Gideon Epstein]
    [Top] [1987/05/07] [1987/05/11] [Bottom]

    T005802f - Gill questions Epstein on T's, A's and G's. Epstein attaches no significance to these discrepancies.

    T005805 - Epstein: "Your Honor, actually it lent to the authenticity of the document because my alignment measurements ... [on pages C, D = photo side] ... what we call the horizontal alignment was exact which showed that they were printed at the same time."

    [ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! The horizontal lines do not align with each other, are not parallel and often appear curved on my photostat.] T005808 - Gill tries to get the point across that prosecution failed to get an exemplar from Karl Streibel while he was still alive.

    T005811f - Gill questions Epstein about failure to measure size of letters, their ratios, slant of letters in Streibel's signature, etc.

    T005848f - Gill cross-examines Epstein on Teufel signature.
    - tav/145(18) is a 1932 Teufel signature, which is most different from tav/149 and all the later signatures.
    - Epstein rejects all of Gill's points re downstroke on "l", slant, etc.

    T005868f - Gill refers to Epstein testimony in 1981 trial, where he indicated he worked mostly from (xerox) photocopies.

    T005873 - Epstein: In 1981, the Trawniki ID "photograph was loose enough to move with your hand, so you could get some sort of play into the photograph." Could exactly align the two stamps on photo and paper.

    T005874 - "In my 1987 examination [Date?] ... Israel ..., I found that the photograph was very firmly affixed so that it could not be moved." There is now a slight overlap on upper right hand corner.

    T005876 - Epstein says the discoloration behind photograph was present in 1981. Gill suggests that this discoloration was caused by solvent used to remove photograph.

    T005877 - Epstein states that a chemical test would be required to reveal if discoloration substance on back of photo is glue or solvent, but does not know if such a test was requested or done.

    T005878f - Epstein gave a lecture on the Demjanjuk case with the approval of the OSI a couple of months after the verdict, even though there was an appeal pending challenging Epstein's findings.

    T005880 - O'Connor asks who in OSI gave him advice to give lecture, but Levin disallows question.

    T005881 - O'Connor asks Epstein questions on the Walus case to which he made reference in his lecture. Levin disallows the question.
    - Levin disallows all of O'Connor's questions.

    T005888f - O'Connor refers to Soviet fraud "right in a book in front of" Shaked, which he would like to submit. "... I am sure this witness [Epstein] will remember very well from 1981 when he testified in a fraudulent manner in a court in the United States." Shaked claims that O'Connor wishes to submit the "photocopy which came from the Soviet Union, the one upon which the witness conducted examinations."
    [Is this the photocopy from which the Russian handwriting has been removed?]

    T005891 - O'Connor places exhibit on easle and starts asking questions. Levin explodes and tells O'Connor to sit down.
    Levin: "What? Did he say the fraud would not see the light of day?"

    [W.Z. Summary:
    (1) I am surprised that Epstein did not testify on the Demjanjuk signature on tav/149 either in Cleveland in 1981 or in Jerusalem in 1987. How can he conclude that the card is authentic unless he examines the Demjanjuk signature and concludes it is authentic?

    (2) U.S. exhibits 5 and 6 were made from photocopies of Trawniki ID card sent by Soviet Union. U.S. exhibits 5a and 6a were made from photographs taken by Epstein in the Soviet Embassy. (It is not clear whether these were color or black and white photographs.) O'Connor wanted to introduce the original exhibits 5 and 6, presumably because the Russian handwriting had been whited out from them. [??]

    (3) I was under the impression that forensic testing on photocopies or photographs of documents was not acceptable in courts of law. Most of Epstein's testimony in the 1981 Cleveland Denaturalization trial is based on photocopies or photographs.

    (4) I do not completely understand the games being played by the prosecution, defense and the judges.

    **** END of Epstein testimony in trial and in Vol. 10 ****

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